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What would you do with this client???
- Thread starter PauFerro
- Start date
Exactly.
It's a way of separating the wheat from the chaff.
It works until someone calls the bluff, and at that point you know they were always going to be more trouble than they were worth as a client - so you've come out ahead in the long run.
That's not the same as actually playing the gig, and them trying to get out of paying - in that situation, you don't even let them get as far as the car park.
Ive been self employed most of my professional life. Some clients are great, some are terrible, and some are difficult. I have learned to drop the really bad and put up with the sometimes difficult. These frustrations are It’s just part of the costs of doing business. You handled it well imo.
Ignorance is bliss as I just trust fate and the powers that be - booking agent is our key player- no bad gigs. Life is too short to stress out all of the time- some of the time though, yes.
This - That's a sane and good response. This day and age/climate (as you said) it's not so easy to just drop a 'difficult' client - in any field of work. Unless one has an established client list - and even then, drop them "politely and nicely".
Don't burn the bridges so to speak.
That's part of a professional attitude, and you'll garner good karma and respect from clients.
You may want to drop them now - but at least give it some thought - and keep the email trail going.
I think you 'should' do what Bulldog5151bass suggests.
Good Luck
T
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If the client has been habitually bad, you have to take some of the blame for allowing it to continue. It sounds like you handled it well this time, but moving forward, unacceptable behavior has to be dealt with immediately. While there's no avoiding some percentage of complete ********, especially in this business, I find that most people that screw up do so more from being overwhelmed with their work, and thus unable to appreciate the larger picture. It's good practice to confirm a booking by sending a contract, which is to be signed and returned. It's unlikely that you're going to take someone to court if they violate the agreement, but going through the motions better clarifies expectations, and provides firm confirmation of the booking. I'll accept an email contract confirmation, since I know I am willing to walk away before going to court.
And then after all that, even if you win, actually collecting the judgment can become a whole new adventure.
We use contracts 100% of the time for special events and/or gigs for corporate clients. Sets expectations so there are no surprises on either end. Our terms and conditions are such no one should ever have invoke small claims court. So far, we have never needed to take any kind of legal action nor has any client of ours.
With a contract, we collect a 50% deposit when the contract is signed and the remaining 50% at the time of performance. If there’s a cancellation by the organizers, they lose their deposit. If we cancel, we return 100% of the deposit. Keeps everyone honest.
We also include mundane expectations like adequate and functioning power supply, parking and so on. Also basic health and safety stipulations. This helps organizers, who might not hire bands regularly figure out our basic necessities in order for us to show up, set up our gear, play and survive!
For bar gigs - it’s a verbal agreement only.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I have two repeat, corporate clients who don't do non-refundable deposits. and this is one of them. With our local big government, and this very expansive property management company, their purchasing/payment processes are so cumbersome and involved, they refuse to do deposits. At one time, this mall required me to get a DUNS number, and pay $50 to have access to their online purchasing system. A cost which I promptly passed on to them at the time.
I have been remiss in including a cancellation clause in our contract, which I guess I need to put into this one. In the past, this has never been an issue (over four years) but this was a wake up call. For the government work we do, the cancellation policy is in place at 50% of the contract price if we don't perform after inking the contract. We try to make ourselves available for rain date, however.
Glad we got a makeup date anyway.
I have been remiss in including a cancellation clause in our contract, which I guess I need to put into this one. In the past, this has never been an issue (over four years) but this was a wake up call. For the government work we do, the cancellation policy is in place at 50% of the contract price if we don't perform after inking the contract. We try to make ourselves available for rain date, however.
Glad we got a makeup date anyway.
True , in a corporate situation where you're dealing with a finance/purchasing/procurement department, you're looking at signing a contract which would stipulate an invoice be issued when services are rendered (or product delivered if you will) - fixed firm price with milestone - with terms like net 30 days. Standard B2B stuff. As long as your own"accounting department" can cash manage the delta and pay YOUR suppliers, you're golden. If the client doesn't pay the invoice within term after you've delivered, then you have reason pursue alternative actions (interest, collection, small claims).
Curious what sort of debt a collection agency would be interested to buy / pursue on %age behalf?
Going forward my plan is to insist on the cancellation clause now that she has crossed the line. This will be after this spate of repeat gigs is over, and they call again. I intend to raise my prices a bit as well to compensate the musicians who booked off time, rescheduled music lessons with their students, and my own hassle in rescheduling. In other words, I'll consider this behavior when it's time to quote next year.
I had a $3000 lesson back in 1998. For small dollar value transactions, no one wins but the lawyers, if they even accept the case. Nobody cares about your "silly little problem" (in my case, my own problem at the time).
Your best defense is to get deposits and put yourself in a position where people can't take advantage of you. When that is not possible, yes, clear expectations in the form of a contract, and then "moral suasion" like I used in this case, is the next best thing.
Finally, writing off the client and moving on to fertile ground is far better than investing your time in someone who is a time and money waster.
50% deposit and contract is a must. No one who intends to be honest has a problem signing a simple contract that lays out the responsibilities of you and the client. A cancellation clause would be part of this, as well as promising a full refund if you cannot play the show, or if it is canceled within a reasonable amount of time (especially for an act of god).
Source: 16 smoothish years at this nonsense in a pro band; 8 years as a frustrated amateur
Source: 16 smoothish years at this nonsense in a pro band; 8 years as a frustrated amateur
Something that I often do when dealing with businesses that do net 30/60/90/etc. is jack my rate up, then offer them a discount for paying early. I still get paid the same, but it works out better for them to pay quickly. If they don't, there's effectively a late fee in place to help make up for the slow cash flow without actually calling it a late fee.
This is correct.
Venues, agents, clients, etc. that never have their crap together, never have their crap together. I could tell stories, but let's just say that if a place pulls that kind of nonsense on me - I'm done with them. There are bands that will put up with anything just to play gigs. I'm not in that crowd anymore.
