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What's supposed to be in a bass rack?

M

Moonsoft

Aug 28, 2006
76
0
#1
What's inside a bass rack? What is each piece for?
I wanna record bass at maximum quality direct to a sound card and I want to have all that is necessary to get a profesional sound. What am I supposed to have? Is it about the bass? or the rack? or the after-recording mix/EQ?
I wanted 0% of quality loss, if possible, -30% of quality loss, which means an improoved sound from raw, I want the best, what shold I get and why and what is the purpose of each piece?
Thanks =D
 
#2
An over processed bass can be just as detrimental to a recording as plugging direct can be.

After saying that, I can tell you only what has worked for me, many other people will have many other opinions.
First of all, a good direct box (doesn't have to be expensive) has never steered me wrong. Behringer makes one that works good, that I picked up for about $30.Whirlwind has a decent line of direct boxes, there are many others like, sansamp,ampeg, also radial makes a superior DI, etc.This would be very good for a clean signal.
If you use effects, IE..chorus,phaser,distortion,wah,etc, you may want to consider splitting your signal, thus you will have an effects signal and a clean signal (You won't lose any of your sound quality, which you can also do live as well (provided you have 2 inputs on your amp.)
Especially if you have multi-tracking capabilities, if not,you will have to combine the two signals back into one before the input on the console. I've been doing session recording and engineering for about 12 years, I've seen a few things done, but this is what works for me.
Also take into consideration of what you are recording into, is it analog? (tape) digital? (hard drive), there are alot of other factors to quality degradation.
Back to the other question you are asking, What is in a rack is purely optional, except for your head (amp) anything after that is purely non-mandatory. There will always be debates on this site about subjects like these, Some players like the "old school sound", which just runs straight into an amp (No frills),Some players like to add compression to even out quieter notes from stronger notes, some players actually like the ability to let their fingers control the attack and do not prefer compressors ('old school"). Some players like EQ's, to taylor their
sound (whether they like alot of highs, lows, or an overall cut or boost). I see alot more bassists that use a rack mounted tuners, instead of a "pocket tuner" (another optional, very handy though). I like to use a wireless,so thats another (though i don't suggest using it for recording). I also use a 2 channel tube pre-amp, one for my clean signal and the other for my effects.

Let me know if any of this blabbering helped.

/Jason
 
#3
If you want a professionally recorded sound, go to a studio. It doesn't matter what you have in your rack if you're going into a cheap soundcard with shoddy a/d converters.

The key to a good sound regardless of what it is (bass, guit, vox) is room, mic placement, microphone, preamp, and a/d converter. There are tons of other factors (the player, etc.) as well, but I'm trying to illustrate that whether or not you have a tuner in your bass rack will have little impact on the quality of sound you track to your computer.

I'd focus more on having a top of the line preamp - d/a converter then worry about the bass rack.
 
#4
satchmo said:
If you want a professionally recorded sound, go to a studio. It doesn't matter what you have in your rack if you're going into a cheap soundcard with shoddy a/d converters.

The key to a good sound regardless of what it is (bass, guit, vox) is room, mic placement, microphone, preamp, and a/d converter. There are tons of other factors (the player, etc.) as well, but I'm trying to illustrate that whether or not you have a tuner in your bass rack will have little impact on the quality of sound you track to your computer.

I'd focus more on having a top of the line preamp - d/a converter then worry about the bass rack.
Click to expand...

What studio did you record the song on your myspace page?
You guy's should come to the DC area and let us record you.
 
#5
A good bass rack (or other assemblage of gear) contains everything needed to get the sound you desire. For some people, that means bass->DI->interface/mixer->recording media. For others, any number of effects or processors could be used anywhere in the chain. There is no one "best" answer. Remember...EVERYTHING that touches the signal will have some affect on it.

For my small home-recording setup, I've been using a SansAmp BDDI->dbx 160A->Presonus Bluetube DP preamp->Lexicon USB interface->Cubase and have gotten some okay results for my needs. I'm currently in the process of upgrading a few things to improve stability and quality.
 
#6
I agree that DI is usually the best way to start.

It's much easier to add signal processing after you've recorded a track. Much harder to take something out. For example, if you record too much distortion you may not be able to fix it. You may not know you're recording too much distortion until you play it back and listen to the mix. If instead, you record clean, then remix with distortion you'll have more adjustment room to get the sound right.
To record clean you just need some kind of direct interface (DI) adapter. Many high end sound cards can do this. Any studio would be able to do this.
For mixdown - you can have all kinds of gear in your bag of tricks. Including software plugins. Compressors, EQ, Multi-Effects, Convolution - cabinet emulations, ... it's unlimited
 
#7
I don't want to go to a studio because I don't have a band yet and I don't want to use other people's equipment. I think in bass you don't need to record from an amp with a microfone, I have been told that direct input sounds best and can be better modified or adjusted that way.
Basically what I want is a Pro sound at home. I have a soundcard that records 96000KHz 24bit, with 2 jack inputs. So it's not a cheap soundblaster card used to play movies or games on PC.
I have a BOSS GT-6B and I plug it directly on the card, I think I might doing it wrong because the sound kinda sucks. Or maybe it's just the preamp simulations that can't really meet a true Ampeg preamp or Hartke or any other.
Will it sound much better if I put a DI after the BOSS GT-6B? Or it is supposed to be used before inserting the BOSS GT-6B?

PS: Oh, and I record to digital then, not analog. I suppose that's the most used.
 
#10
If I were you, I would go through the direct box first, then if possible split your signal before you go into your boss (splitters are fairly inexpensive), Like I said if it's possible to do 2 simultaneous inputs, do a clean and a processed track. If not, combine them together (blend them to your liking), The reason why I would stress this, is so that you lose no sound quality, but you can still use effects, without them affecting any frequencies because of an additional "dry signal".Although this requires more 1/4" cables, it's the best of both worlds.


PS: What brand of sound card are you using, What operating system?Xp?Mac?Linux? What progam are you using to record with?Details please?
Happy recording.:bassist:
 
#11
I would imagine your soundcard needs a balanced input if your Boss unit can do this you don't need a DI if it only has unbalanced outputs you'll need a DI.

Boss isn't really known for their high quality gear, a simple Countryman DI always sounds nice.
 
#12
Alembicplyr said:
What studio did you record the song on your myspace page?
You guy's should come to the DC area and let us record you.
Click to expand...

Studio? :-)

That was a basement 4 track jobby, 4 mics on drums submixed, with guitar and bass separate, and vox overdubbed afterwards. Mixed on cubase by yours truly. Definitely not professional, but we were just looking for something to throw up on myspace.

I'd love to come to DC and do some recording, but it's a bit of a ways, and we're moving to jolly old England soon.
 
#13
Moonsoft said:
I don't want to go to a studio because I don't have a band yet and I don't want to use other people's equipment. I think in bass you don't need to record from an amp with a microfone, I have been told that direct input sounds best and can be better modified or adjusted that way.
Basically what I want is a Pro sound at home. I have a soundcard that records 96000KHz 24bit, with 2 jack inputs. So it's not a cheap soundblaster card used to play movies or games on PC.
I have a BOSS GT-6B and I plug it directly on the card, I think I might doing it wrong because the sound kinda sucks. Or maybe it's just the preamp simulations that can't really meet a true Ampeg preamp or Hartke or any other.
Will it sound much better if I put a DI after the BOSS GT-6B? Or it is supposed to be used before inserting the BOSS GT-6B?

PS: Oh, and I record to digital then, not analog. I suppose that's the most used.
Click to expand...


What soundcard are you using?

THe problem is most likely that your bass/boss combination is only putting out an instrument level signal which needs to be amplified to line level before the sound card can take it and process it.

Also, depending on what effects you are using, make sure to use them sparingly. Recorded effects, especially DI'd always sound horrible when you put too much on (especially overdrive).
 
#14
Moonsoft said:
What's inside a bass rack? What is each piece for?
I wanna record bass at maximum quality direct to a sound card and I want to have all that is necessary to get a profesional sound. What am I supposed to have? Is it about the bass? or the rack? or the after-recording mix/EQ?
I wanted 0% of quality loss, if possible, -30% of quality loss, which means an improoved sound from raw, I want the best, what shold I get and why and what is the purpose of each piece?
Thanks =D
Click to expand...

What type of bass sound are you looking to capture?
If it's more of a jazzy tone, a simple/clean DI will likely work well. If it's more of an Ampeg like rock tone, a straight DI won't sound rough/tough enough. Something like a SansAmp will get you close.

If you want to make world-class DI recordings, here is your checklist:

1. Instrument - No matter what the style, achieving a 'great' recording starts at the source. A quality instrument makes a big difference.

2. DI/pre-amp - When recording DI, you have to get the relatively low level signal from the bass up to line level to record. So... a quality DI *and* pre-amp is a must.

3. Audio interface - Quality of the A/D converters and the unit's noise-floor will determine the fidelity you can achieve.
World-class units typically have 117+dB of dynamic range.

IOW, you need top-notch gear from top to bottom. You can compromise on any of the above, but it'll compromise the quality of the end result.
All of us have to live within some means, so you'll likely have to strike a balance between quality/affordability.

BTW, You can get some awesome bass recordings from mic'ing a good amp. But it's a lot more complicated!!!
You need a great amp/cab, great mic/s, great mic pre-amp/s, a good sounding room, and the knowledge of how to effectively use all the above.

That brings me to my final point...
Having all the gear is just the first step toward producing top-notch recordings. Learning how to use that gear effectively is a long-term process.

Side Note:
For a quick/easy solution, I've had great luck using the DI output from an Ampeg SVT head... and processing that recording thru Ampeg SVX. (An Ampeg endorsed AmpSim plugin). This solution is a good balance of cost/convenience/productivity.


Jim Roseberry
www.studiocat.com
[email protected]
 
#15
I'm not looking for an specific bass sound, the BOSS GT-6B can achieve various types of sounds, like metallic or soft, I just record what the song asks for. I wanted a clear sign directly to the PC, I get all dissapointed when I'm starting to mix the drums + bass, and the bass ruins it with it's quality. When I want a real deep ground shaking sound I can't achieve it because it seems those low signals are lost. Or maybe I don't have enough power on my speakers. And I always hear alot of string scratching, my left hand fingers and getting hard on the tips and it's starting to get an ugly sound when I slide sometimes. I manage to eliminate some of that by reducing Hi frequencies but then the signal of the bass notes from that frequency is lost too. Then the songs get all messy and I can hardly notice the notes, it's just a low sound comming out of the speakers as the drums play, and if it has guitar I must reduce the bass alot or it will fog out everything. I guess I just wanted a noiseless full range frequency, deep, or metal sound, recorded in profesional quality.

And my soundcard is ESI MAYA44
 
#16
satchmo said:
Studio? :-)

That was a basement 4 track jobby, 4 mics on drums submixed, with guitar and bass separate, and vox overdubbed afterwards. Mixed on cubase by yours truly. Definitely not professional, but we were just looking for something to throw up on myspace.

I'd love to come to DC and do some recording, but it's a bit of a ways, and we're moving to jolly old England soon.
Click to expand...

Well that sucks, well if you guys ever do let me know.
 
#17
Moonsoft said:
I'm not looking for an specific bass sound, the BOSS GT-6B can achieve various types of sounds, like metallic or soft, I just record what the song asks for. I wanted a clear sign directly to the PC, I get all dissapointed when I'm starting to mix the drums + bass, and the bass ruins it with it's quality. When I want a real deep ground shaking sound I can't achieve it because it seems those low signals are lost. Or maybe I don't have enough power on my speakers. And I always hear alot of string scratching, my left hand fingers and getting hard on the tips and it's starting to get an ugly sound when I slide sometimes. I manage to eliminate some of that by reducing Hi frequencies but then the signal of the bass notes from that frequency is lost too. Then the songs get all messy and I can hardly notice the notes, it's just a low sound comming out of the speakers as the drums play, and if it has guitar I must reduce the bass alot or it will fog out everything. I guess I just wanted a noiseless full range frequency, deep, or metal sound, recorded in profesional quality.

And my soundcard is ESI MAYA44
Click to expand...

Yes, it appears that the connectors are TRS, (tip-ring-sleeve)on that sound card. It is similar to a 1/8th" headphone jack, except it's 1/4"(it has two notches on it instead of one,like a 1/4" instrument cable). What you may want to do as well is get a dual mono into balanced (TRS) cable converter, and try that as well.
You still didn't say what software you are using either.
 
#18
I use Mixcraft 3.1 to record the incoming sound.
I don't think the program is the problem because it will only record perfectly what comes through the line.
I attached a sample recorded at 44.100 KHz 16 bit.
When I play it in Winamp, in the frequency bar it only moves the first bar, like there is no other frequencies, I don't know what that means, but I think this sample doesn't have that deep raw sound that a bass should have.
My bass model is a ESP LTD F-104, maybe it's the bass taht doesn't get the right sound from the strings?
 
#20
Moonsoft said:
I use Mixcraft 3.1 to record the incoming sound.
I don't think the program is the problem because it will only record perfectly what comes through the line.
I attached a sample recorded at 44.100 KHz 16 bit.
When I play it in Winamp, in the frequency bar it only moves the first bar, like there is no other frequencies, I don't know what that means, but I think this sample doesn't have that deep raw sound that a bass should have.
My bass model is a ESP LTD F-104, maybe it's the bass taht doesn't get the right sound from the strings?
Click to expand...


Don't worry too much about which 'bars' are moving on winamp. The vast majority of the bass' signal comes in at the lower frequencies.

What monitors are you using?

From your previous post, and I don't mean this to be insulting, it sounds like part of the problem is the playing. I don't mean this to be negative, but if you want a thumping, clean tone, then it starts with technique. If you are noticing string buzzing, etc. from your playing, then I would improve that before worrying about what equipment to use.

Unfortunately I'm at work so can't really hear the sample you sent, but the monitors you use to check your recordings are also equally important. It may be that the tone you want has been recorded, you just can't here it properly because of poor or improper speakers. Burn a copy to CD and try it out in various systems to see where it needs improvement.
 

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