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Where did all the Ken Smiths go?
- Thread starter Kmrumedy
- Start date
If you didn't feel it, then you didn't feel it.
I ended up not liking mine that much either and don't miss it.
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My 1991 Koa top BT5 isn't going anywhere for a while.
I purchased one of those Brubaker-made Ken Smith's last year. It was a 6 string bolt-on. I also own a 2018 BSR6 which I bought new in 2018 and which was made in Perkasie, PA. I still own that one!
IMHO, I noticed a difference. The neck was all maple but it felt cheap. I just couldn't warm up to it. Also, the bass sounded thin to me, even though it has the exact same pickups and electronics. Not only that but I couldn't adjust the bass to my liking. I kept getting dead notes all throughout the high registers of the bass. Maybe I didn't set it up properly.. I don't know. It felt like an imitation to me. I ended up returning it. But I could be completely wrong and if any one of you purchase one, you may find it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
I am only speaking about that one particular model. Perhaps the neck-thru models are much better!
YMMV...
IMHO, I noticed a difference. The neck was all maple but it felt cheap. I just couldn't warm up to it. Also, the bass sounded thin to me, even though it has the exact same pickups and electronics. Not only that but I couldn't adjust the bass to my liking. I kept getting dead notes all throughout the high registers of the bass. Maybe I didn't set it up properly.. I don't know. It felt like an imitation to me. I ended up returning it. But I could be completely wrong and if any one of you purchase one, you may find it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
I am only speaking about that one particular model. Perhaps the neck-thru models are much better!
YMMV...
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Just not flavor of the month any more. Not to mention they aren't Jazz Bass clones which are what take up all the boutique oxygen these days. Only played a few, but all were superb basses.
To the OP's subject line, just off the top of my head, it will be interesting to ask this very same question 10 years from now (as in 2032)
All bass brands have a shelf life. Some turn into stale bread while others sell like hotcakes.
If anything a Ken Smith 4 string will have a demand and maybe more so than a 5 or 6.
Interestingly enough, 6 strings are among the least owned / played configuration of any bass on the planet, yet you can likely find a Ken Smith 6 for sale somewhere right now, that's supply and demand.
4 strings are of course the most plentiful and 5ers are somewhat in between 4's and 6's.
Here's a tip though, just because they're not available....doesn't mean they're not available.
Are you reaching the right audience? Try a Wanted ad if you're a supporting member, maybe check the Ken Smith Club, search Google, Reverb, eBay, etc. That's about the best you can do as you never know when someone is going to sell something you're specifically looking for or could be sitting on the fence.
Another tip: Just because any particular bass from a particular brand you're looking for happens to be for sale, doesn't always mean it's the best example from that builder either. So, you either take the risk and hope for the best or it goes the other way and you end up unhappy. Always good to manage expectations.
All bass brands have a shelf life. Some turn into stale bread while others sell like hotcakes.
If anything a Ken Smith 4 string will have a demand and maybe more so than a 5 or 6.
Interestingly enough, 6 strings are among the least owned / played configuration of any bass on the planet, yet you can likely find a Ken Smith 6 for sale somewhere right now, that's supply and demand.
4 strings are of course the most plentiful and 5ers are somewhat in between 4's and 6's.
Here's a tip though, just because they're not available....doesn't mean they're not available.
Are you reaching the right audience? Try a Wanted ad if you're a supporting member, maybe check the Ken Smith Club, search Google, Reverb, eBay, etc. That's about the best you can do as you never know when someone is going to sell something you're specifically looking for or could be sitting on the fence.
Another tip: Just because any particular bass from a particular brand you're looking for happens to be for sale, doesn't always mean it's the best example from that builder either. So, you either take the risk and hope for the best or it goes the other way and you end up unhappy. Always good to manage expectations.
I’d imagine players are holding onto them in greater numbers. Everyone that owns one knows exactly what have and what the current backstory is.
When you get a really good Smith in your hands, you literally are holding one of the finest pieces of functional art in the stringed electric instrument business. They are profoundly well-built instruments. That said, I’m not of the economic caste that can casually toss around many thousands of dollars for a bass on a whim. When I do, it’s a big deal for me.
It’s not unreasonable to expect the provider of such an expensive item to be civil and respectful in business dealings, and Ken was never that guy, as many know. I have too many experiences and too many stories that attach a lot of negative energy to Ken Smith instruments - this is why I’ve never owned one, new or used.
When you get a really good Smith in your hands, you literally are holding one of the finest pieces of functional art in the stringed electric instrument business. They are profoundly well-built instruments. That said, I’m not of the economic caste that can casually toss around many thousands of dollars for a bass on a whim. When I do, it’s a big deal for me.
It’s not unreasonable to expect the provider of such an expensive item to be civil and respectful in business dealings, and Ken was never that guy, as many know. I have too many experiences and too many stories that attach a lot of negative energy to Ken Smith instruments - this is why I’ve never owned one, new or used.
You are so right about brands having a shelf life. I am certain that Michael Pedulla let Pedulla die because there was not a big demand for his basses anymore. The other thing to note is that both Sadowsky and Ken Smith are showing the transition can have bumps on the road. I think the Ken Smith partnership with Brubaker is closer to the spirit of the original, it inevitably has suffered from not being the original. In the case of Warwick, the German Metroline seemed to suffer initially from comparison to Japanese Metros. I guess the most successful boutique brand marketer has been Spector because folks seem to love Spectors at all levels of production.
BoesPronounBass
Commercial User
- Jan 7, 2022
- 63
- 88
- Disclosures
- Owner/operator of Feather Guitars LLC
It is a market with market forces like any other... the overall preference for the market particularly in a said era at first drove up the cost as a brand impact (as you'll see in some posts), add to that the condensing of boutique bass manufacturers that have that same or similar reputation... it is a changing of the guard time as far as music production. Handmade is of course still amazing and it will cost what it does... machine made no-one can deny has closed the gap. My opinion is as you do that, you are certainly going to squeeze the upper-end market hard - with at least two key impacts, one being the aforementioned condensing of manufacturers in that space, and the second being even those manufacturers that did survive would shift their business practices in various ways. One would be creating their designs with good components at better machine made locations to save cost. Another would be that in all likelihood their high-end instruments would likely concentrate to even higher-end markets (further customizations etc.) that brought better $/instrument for that model while the other models could work volume. Not all manufacturers had to do this to impact the market... but that is going to squeeze out some of the high-end, into the super-high-end custom trend that are less likely to be sold. I cannot prove this, it is just a mind exploration... but I would not be surprised if you followed the market forces there has been a sharp decline of the supply of basses in that sort of Ken Smith and comparable pricing... with a sharp uptick of players purchasing at in-between type lines (Fender Player, Warwick expanded lines, Ibanez) and then a gradual shift up in the highest of high-end. Anyhow --- let that play out for a few years, and the used market churn that up a bit and eventually this supply settles in places where individuals are likely to keep them without enough new hitting the market... and so then you see a price spike, and a responding buy-up when individuals realize they don't have another chance... followed by a dry market... except for life-event rarities (sickness, break-up, injury, death, financial issues) as some mentioned.
Yeah, it's a fact that doesn't ever seem to get pointed out. Some bass designs get old and tired.
Nothing wrong with if it ain't broke, don't fix it...but there is always an increased push for something new.
Luthiers get old as well. Ken Smith is one of the most celebrated luthiers on this site. His designs are classic.
And that's cool in its own right. I've personally owned two Ken Smith 5 strings in my time and I have to say, they're amazing instruments. They play great, sound great, and look great. I wish I could afford to keep every bass I've experienced, but that wouldn't truly be my experience anyway. I don't have a need to own everything I've touched, I like letting stuff go because in the end...you can't take it with you! That's why I love the talkbass classifieds. It's like an international rental program depending how you look at it if you want to experience buying, selling, and trading instruments.
Great points about Sadowsky and Spector. Both great builders willing to share their craft and style with a licensed overseas builder to ultimately bring a cheaper and somewhat similar version of their top notch products to the masses. What about the Ken Smith Burner series? These were built overseas, weren't they?
I can imagine it gets tough as you get older and being still in the business. Heck, Carl Thompson is probably the most senior in this world. I know George Furlanetto of F-Bass fairly well and I think it's great what the Fbass brand has turned into in recent years as well. Lots of research and development from player insight and trying something new ideas. They've evolved. Could KS maybe have a evolved a little more? I think so...but he doesn't have to. Maybe that's how the brand got a little "stale". The Brubaker partnership could a new chapter. Who knows.
I have owned 45 Ken Smiths in the past 27 years. And now people are hanging on to them. I myself would like to buy a 4 string or 5 string Smith again but not paying present asking prices. They are great basses but not paying stupid prices for one.
yes i think ken smiths are not as available as they were a few years ago. i couldn't give my smith away 2 years ago. This year i put it up again since my MTD is my main gal and im doing a resto-mod on my 66 cuda so she has to go. The smith sold in about an hour for a LOT more than i was asking before. and I was flooded with calls about it too. i had at least 5 people trying to paypal me to snag it from the guy in front. it was kinda wild.
I bought a 4-string from Ken back in the '80s; it was a set neck with a bubinga top and ebony fingerboard. I didn't realize at the time that it was in any way rare. I eventually moved it on when I decided to take the plunge into 6-string. A 6-string Smith was beyond my means at the time, so the proceeds went toward a Peavey Tim Landers 6 (TL-6), which was a good bass but not quite on the same level.
It would be interesting to know if my old Smith is still kicking around somewhere. It wasn't quite the bass for me, and I wouldn't want to buy it back; but it had some really brilliant aspects, and the quality and care were undeniable.
[Sidenote: respect for the avatar. RIP Thich Nhat Hanh.]
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I have no doubt they will. I often wonder if old MTDs will be referred to pre-Daniel after Michael retires.
BoesPronounBass
Commercial User
- Jan 7, 2022
- 63
- 88
- Disclosures
- Owner/operator of Feather Guitars LLC
No doubt MTDs will, be either Pre-Daniel, or Post-Mike. And only time and reputation will prove what that distinction ends up meaning. Hopefully it will just mean a different style that is just as embraced and loved. Although… I am sad that there’s very little if any chance I’ll get to order a custom made 435 from Mike. But at least he’s done a great job with his lines I could afford (Beast, and now Kingston Z4).
The were great basses, and original Burner prices are starting to go through the roof too.
