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Where to aim speakers?

Where to point the vocal speakers?

  • Keep the speakers aimed forward

    Votes: 14 53.8%

  • Aim one to a side

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • Carrots. And, carrots.

    Votes: 7 26.9%
  • Total voters
    26
N

nsmar4211

Nov 11, 2007
1,016
8
#1
My group currently runs just the vocals through the PA speakers (yahmaha 15"'s). I and the guitar player play through our amps, which are place on either side of the drummer (so he can hear) aimed forward.

When we play a venue with audience to the sides also, should we aim one speaker to the sides? I say no, keep em both pointed front so that when people are standing in the "sound zone" they hear all instruments, IMO a group would rather not hear vocals louder than all else. Course, from the sides the vocal sound gets lost although you can hear bass and drums and some guitar fine :).

What do you guys think? Keep the sound facing forward or try to send some of it to where a group of people are?
(right now mic'ing the guitar amp is being worked on)
 
#5
Zooberwerx said:
When you say "full range", do you mean biamped with subs?

Riis
Click to expand...

No the follow up was correct...

We're running 4 mains with internal crossovers..

OUr band isn't playing death metal, hardcore etc, our customer base are in the car shows, families and 40-70 age bracket.

To keep things simple.. we have a a 2 ohm load (4 mains) all run in series...

WE point 2 forwards.. then the upper 2 we point spreading outward at about 20 degreees or so...

A sound design company suggested this format as we're super vocal intense (6 part harmony).. we were looking for a solution that could help us cover the room without more volume.
 
#7
MNAirHead said:
To keep things simple.. we have a a 2 ohm load (4 mains) all run in series...

WE point 2 forwards.. then the upper 2 we point spreading outward at about 20 degreees or so...
Click to expand...

I had the same setup when doing sound for a friend's band. The stage was up about 3 feet so I pointed the bottom 2 in towards the dancers/tables and the top two I pointed outwards about 20 degrees.

I checked out the sound in the back of the area and it covered fine.

I suggest you do a set with them in one position and another set in another position. I think you go wireless so you can check out the sound by going out in the audience if you don't have a sound person.

Note: be sure they are stacked to the horns are next to each other. I also suggest the guitarist be miked a bit to offset the directional sound from his amp. I've heard so many bands where the guitarist is not miked and they're blasting on one side and barely heard on the other.
 
#10
MNAirHead said:
No the follow up was correct...

We're running 4 mains with internal crossovers..

OUr band isn't playing death metal, hardcore etc, our customer base are in the car shows, families and 40-70 age bracket.

To keep things simple.. we have a a 2 ohm load (4 mains) all run in series...

WE point 2 forwards.. then the upper 2 we point spreading outward at about 20 degreees or so...

A sound design company suggested this format as we're super vocal intense (6 part harmony).. we were looking for a solution that could help us cover the room without more volume.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. The "traditionalist" in me says mains on tripods pointing forward, subs clustered and centered or to one side. We're considering adding addt'l mains and the suggested layout is intriguing.

Any problems with low-end (<80 hz) dispersion with this "fanned" footprint? Kinda goes against the grain of what I learned. Nothing would make me happier than finding a truly full-range, biampable enclosure and stage plan that would eliminate or minimize the need for separate subs without accentuating comb-filtering and other pitfalls associated with low freq. reinforcement.

Riis
 
#12
nsmar4211 said:
My group currently runs just the vocals through the PA speakers (yahmaha 15"'s). I and the guitar player play through our amps, which are place on either side of the drummer (so he can hear) aimed forward.

When we play a venue with audience to the sides also, should we aim one speaker to the sides? I say no, keep em both pointed front so that when people are standing in the "sound zone" they hear all instruments, IMO a group would rather not hear vocals louder than all else. Course, from the sides the vocal sound gets lost although you can hear bass and drums and some guitar fine :).

What do you guys think? Keep the sound facing forward or try to send some of it to where a group of people are?
(right now mic'ing the guitar amp is being worked on)
Click to expand...

I would aim the speakers forward or towards the dance floor.
 
#13
Alright, so small concensus is forward unless you have two on a side....... personally if im bringing 4 speakers 2 of em are gonna be subs!

Got an outdoor gig Friday, might try to run guitar amp mic through the pa....bringing a new set of variables into the equation! Whoooo
 
#14
modulusman said:
What speakers are you using?
Click to expand...

I have about a dozen classic heavy peaveys... all black widow usa era.. we mix/match them for the venue

SP2s.. SP3s.. 3 ways etc.



=====

There was a question of the boomy bass etc.. I've had old school pro sound guys commonly suggest to spend time EQing and more cabinets with lower volume.

I was trying to find big watt cabs until hearing a band using a setup like this.. immediately changed my mind

======

Stumbo---- guitarist mike.. thanks for the reminder... for most live setups.. we make it clear that guitar amps should be placed facing away from front of house.... I'm totally fine with them blasting directly toward their head - not a customer.

Luckily now most guitarists are cool with small watt combos..
 
#15
Well, for my unconventional 2 cents, in an indoor club you should have the PA in one place; I prefer behind the drummer in center stage, speakers facing at a 45 to cover the room, or in front of the stage, same speaker configuration. Only in a super large hall or out doors do you need to or want to seperate the speakers. Why? The six inches between your ears makes you hear a delay that translates into mud in the room, and to place the PA together eliminates that and gives a focal point for the hearer to listen to. This advice may not be accurate if you are overpowering the room (meaning blasting volume), but works phenominally well if you're playing to the room. Try it...you'll be surprised! Out doors is a different story, because you may have to seperate speakers to provide sound to essentially two different audiences, one on each side. Unless you have a huge sound system.
 
#16
I've heard (and done) this many times (I am in no way claiming to be an expert in live sound or saying that this is the 'correct' way). You can find diagrams for this on the Mackie site and in their product manuals: With your mains on either side of the stage, aim each slightly "inward", towards the opposite corner of the room. You'd think it would cause phasing problems or something, but it's always worked beautifully for me. I think the idea is to cover the "triangle" area right in front of the stage; a.k.a: the dancefloor, that front-facing speakers would usually miss. Obviously the ideal layout for this would be a "traditional" rectangular venue.
 
#17
As a sound guy I hate when everyone faces their amps straight ahead at the back of the stage for these reasons:

Your amp is YOUR stage monitor for your instrument. If I mic everything thru the PA I don't need the amps facing the front of the room. I am running everything thru the PA and need to hear the PA over the stage volume to mix it properly. Many times the guitar amps are over powering the PA and the vocalist and end up turning every one down in the mix except the Kick and the vocals so you can't really mix it well.

Guitar combo amps on stands point upward towards you so you can hear the "real" tone of it with less volume. Bass amps I leave on the floor as low freq is omni directional. Having your amp at your ankles when your ears are 5 feet above off axis from the amp means to you it sounds like a nice rich tone, but kneel down and crank on it and that is what the guy in the front row is hearing when you are parting his hair!

99% of the time the guitar tone is to bright and fizzly due to this.

I played as a bass player, but mostly do sound now. Our band always set up the same way every time. we set up at practice to dial in our setup and once we got it figured out we always positioned our amps the same way on stage....even if we had a 50' stage for a show we still set up so we were the same distance from each other and our amps.

As for PA cabs I set subs on the floor, top cabs on stands with the horns above ear level facing straight ahead or angled inward and downward slightly. (if your cabs have angleed pole sockets).

As for the group of people sitting off to the side. I would not worry about it. Maybe they sat there for a reason so they are not in direct path of the speakers and can have a conversation. I used to get someone at every show come up to me and say they could not hear well and when I asked them where they were sitting (off in a corner somewhere) :rollno: That they needed to move......sorry can't change
physics.
 
#20
It was my understanding that as long as your speakers are in phase you won't get cancellation...... Friend told me how to use a battery to check and make sure they are in phase, we checked and they are :)

We've just kept aiming them slightly center at the last few gigs. Figured with the guitar amp aiming center lets keep all the sound aimed at the same place.

One thing I should've mentioned is we are rarely up on a stage. Only one venue has a stage, and it's outdoors so not as much of a "blow you out" issue. Actually, we keep getting kudos for not overblowing the places we play! Gets us repeat gigs :)
 

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