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Which boutique brand will do a Stingray-style first?

#21
I modded the bejebus out of my US Dlx J V.

My main point wasn't about modding, though, just custom versions of the Stingray style. I guess my point to bring up the parts was that there are now sources to get parts to make a bass from the ground up with MM-style stuff.

Sadowsky took the J bass, made it by hand, made his own preamp and pickups, and he's got business coming out of his tuchus!
Now there's Alleva-Coppola...
Now there's Valenti...
Now there's Low End...
Now there's Nordstrand...
They all seem to be taking the overflow of what Sadowsky started with the J bass.

So why not the Stingray?
 
#22
nocontrols said:
That's true.

I think the culture of modding Fenders started back when Fenders were the only option and people wanted more. But then it continued because Fender released MIM and Squier models that leave people wanting to get closer to the MIA models.

Music Man never had that same model... they first came out in a world where boutique bass builders were giving players more options and have continued (up until recently) creating instruments in the US only.
Click to expand...

All Music Man basses are still made in the US only.
 
#25
I think we're kind of veering off topic.

While I agree that a lot of business for mods of Fender style basses goes into the foreign made stuff, there's 2 things that I can say for sure:
1) People do mod US Fender stuff all the time
2) The upgrade parts are frequently found on custom, boutique basses

But that's neither here nor there.

My point is, no one is doing a Musicman-style boutique bass.
Sadowsky does the J bass as the Ultra Vintage (and others), A-C does the LG the same.
 
#27
nocontrols said:
I kind of get what you're saying. The unique components of a Ray are part of what makes it what it is... but why don't people feel that way about stock Fenders? Why isn't there that attitude towards a stock Jazz, for example? You can't say that components in a USA made Jazz Standard are crap because they're not. It's also a quality instrument right out of the box but people are always wondering who to make it more unique, make it their own. People seem to get a new Ray and never think of that.
Click to expand...

Because the quality of standard fenders are not consistant, and the components (pickups, preamps, bridges, tuners) cannot stand toe for toe with after market replacements (eg, seymour duncan pickups, aguilar preamp, hipshot hardware, etc etc.)

However, Musicman basses hardware and components can hold it with the best of em.

Another train of thought is the way we are approaching these basses Why are people modding squires and mexican fenders, but not american musicmans? Which is a broken argument to begin with.

Subs and rays need to be compared with mexicans fenders and squires, american fenders need to be compared to american fenders.

Lastly, the fender instrument to me, is a blank canvas, i can mod it anyway i want to suit my needs. I can go get a hyperactive slap happy jazz, or string it with flats and get some deep reggae dub.

A ray is a ray, while they are versatile and awesome. its a ray.
 
#31
Darkstrike said:
Musicman have copyrights(or whatever) on their bodys and headstocks, so you can't have boutique makers copying their appearance, unless they want to be sued to hell and back.
Click to expand...

How did they do that for the body anyway? It looks ergonomic, but rather generic...

I think any custom builder that builds jazz basses by hand could easily build a stingray. They are just fulfilling orders, and it seems jazz basses are more popular...
 
#32
nocontrols said:
The original premise of this thread begs a really interesting question and one I can't quite answer: WHY do people want to mod Fenders but not Rays? I have no idea why that is. It's obvious that that's the way it goes but I don't know why it is.
Click to expand...

Well ask any (pre 2008 or especially vintage) Fender J or P owner and they'll give you the answer: "I love my Fender except for one thing - it's a Fender". And up until about 2008, it was easy to see what they were talking about by just taking one off the wall at your local music shop and looking it over. Especially the vintage basses, which are notorious (and what actually started the whole thing in the first place).

That's why there sprung up this absolutely gigantic market for Fender P and J copies. Keep the desireable stuff and fix the broken stuff and boom, you could really turn that into a business with a huge customer base. Sure enough, witness all the superb P and J copies out there like the Lakland, Sadowsky and the similarly fantastically well-built instruments made by smaller boutique custom builders (many of whom you can find here on TB).

Even Leo Fender himself got into the business later too with G&L - not really a market success, but absolutely a quality instrument success.

The Stingray, however, never offered this same opportunity. From the get-go, it was a much more well-built and designed instrument than the original Fender. Build quality, sound, playability, etc., were already too good direct from Music Man so there was never a market for "improved" copies. Also notice there's no market at all for G&L copies for the same reason.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Nowadays, Fender themselves have vastly improved the quality of their original basses, but the copy market is still so huge it keeps going anyway. And many of the copies are now their own styles of basses in their own right (again I'm thinking Lakland and Sadowsky, that only resemble original Fenders in superficial ways - otherwise, they have their own craftsmanship and character, IMO).

LS
 
#33
I don't like the SR5 pickguard, body shape, or spacing at the bridge, so I ordered this one from Martin Keith:

5352441971_6cbebe8670_z.jpg


Nordstrand MM (and P) pickups (covered, obviously)
Noll preamp with passive tone
Hipshot vintage bridge and ultralight tuners
Ash body, maple neck, rosewood board
34.5" scale, 19mm spacing at bridge

I'm thrilled with the results.
 
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#36
That's a shame, really. Seems like the only way is to get a 1-off from a small builder and never let EBMM see it.

I guess I'll just save up some dough for a few years and give people in the Luthier's Corner a shout and see what they'd be able to do for me...
Or learn how to build some bodies and necks.

So companies like Sadowsky and A-C have their own semi-unique shapes, and thus avoid a 100% copyright infingement. But did they have to ask Fender before they started up? Because it seems to me, unless you are tracing a shape and building an exact replica, you could avoid a lot of problems.
Is EBMMs legal department that busy with killing copies?
Have there been any lawsuits involving infringement in recent years?

Their vintage style does lack the studs, that's true. But...
398.jpg

79.jpg

They have the technology...
 
#37
rojo412 said:
That's a shame, really. Seems like the only way is to get a 1-off from a small builder and never let EBMM see it.

I guess I'll just save up some dough for a few years and give people in the Luthier's Corner a shout and see what they'd be able to do for me...
Or learn how to build some bodies and necks.

So companies like Sadowsky and A-C have their own semi-unique shapes, and thus avoid a 100% copyright infingement. But did they have to ask Fender before they started up? Because it seems to me, unless you are tracing a shape and building an exact replica, you could avoid a lot of problems.
Is EBMMs legal department that busy with killing copies?
Have there been any lawsuits involving infringement in recent years?

Their vintage style does lack the studs, that's true. But...
398.jpg

79.jpg

They have the technology...
Click to expand...

Fender bodies aren't trademarked, a big screwup on Fenders part meaning anyone can use their bodystyles.

Last lawsuit by EBMM that I remember is the SX Stingray clones, but all they could stop was US import of them.

P160710_1726_01.jpg


That's them.
 
#38
Oh, and I wanted a boutique with Stingray tone, I had this made for me.

3352-HI-RES.jpg



Lakland did at one time offer a single H model too, and I've seen one or two Sadowskys with the setup. I'm sure most boutique guys would work something out for you, if you're not too worried about it looking like a Ray.
 
#39
Not gonna lie, you're asking for your musicman to become another instrument. Id look into companies that offer your specifications and customizing options more easilly. Tone trumps body style. I was in the Warwick NYC custom shop showroom and played multiple basses. I picked up beautiful basses ranging from 3500 to 12000. I think the Warwick Thumb is ugly as **** body-wise, but it was my favorite bass that I played that day. Also companies out there offer body/ tuners / pickups / inlays extremely easily. Id check out other brands, you may just be surprised when your musicman is out done.
 

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