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Which settings on these autowah/envelope pedals?

isaiahdoggydog

isaiahdoggydog

Mar 10, 2022
49
35
#1
Hey all Talkbassers! I have a little dilemma. I've had my Sonicake Cry-bot for quite a long time and I can't get along with it fully... On guitar it kind of works okay but on bass, which I play more, it's too subtle. I've manage to set the knobs to one setting that works;

Freq = 12-1 o'clock
Sens = 9 o'clock
Pres = 3 o'clock
Decay = dimed

Pure luck-setting since I really don't know what the knobs do exactly. Since it has not been a huge success I decided to pull the trigger on a little Mooer Envelope that was on sale. I just tested it and it's the same issue, I can't get that silly goose to quack at all!

The pedals have the same format and layout but on the Mooer the controls are Sensitivity, Q, Decay, and Tone. At first I suspected them to be the same circuit but now I'm unsure since the knobs are in different positions...

Does anyone know how I could set these two pedals to get the most Donald out of them possible?

I have a pretty criminal action over my pups, around 6-7mm (like 0.2 - 0.3 inches?), if that has any bearing on the resulting sound. I'll attach pics of both pedals. Would greatly appreciate any help!

//Isaiah

Sonicakecrybot.png
Mooerenvelope.png
 
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#3
Les Fret said:
Totally depends on the input signal of your bass and your playing style. What bass do you have? also try a different pickup if you have bridge and neck pickup. Experiment a lot with the sensitivity knob. There is no general rule for setting envelope pedals.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the response! I have a Squier V Jazz bass that's my main axe, I also have a Harley Benton Jazz that I currently don't use since the screws of the bridge pup broke off....

I feel like the sensitivity knob doesn't even do the same on the 2 pedals, I tried to sweep it all over on the new Mooer since it's the big knob and it's barely quackin', and it's certainly not quackin' more with the knob dimed...
 
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#5
bassbrad said:
If you can return or exchange the Mooer for a Mooer Sweeper you will find it a lot friendlier on bass. It is a clone of the EHX BassBalls, my all time favorite defect pedal.
I usually get along better with simpler envelope followers opposed to those with lots of settings, my first envelope pedal was an EHX Dr Q Envelope Follower way back in the 70s.
Click to expand...

Hmm that can totally be an option, It'll set me back about 20 bucks but still manageable pricing. I got the Mooer Envelope for about 35 bucks and the Sweeper comes in at like 58 bucks. Love the look of that one knobber! Thanks Brad!
 
#6
Additionally, do y'all think it's a type of pedal problem or is it a me/my bass problem? I'm a bit of a pedalhoarder and it hurts my guts to send one back hehe...

Also, anyone tried Harley Benton Bass Camp? It looks as to be a copy of the BassBalls/Sweeper as well judging by the knobs but I find it a bit weird that it's a filter/chorus, reckon I would put a few dirt pedals of my choosing in between those types of effects...

Harleybentonbasscamp.png
 
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#8
Les Fret said:
Did you try it with another bass? I heard some people getting good sounds out of that Mooer. So it should be possible I guess. Haven't tried it myself.
Click to expand...

I didn't but I actually just right now managed to get a decent sound out of it! Will play around more with the settings to see if I can find the lost ark but for reference, this is where I'm at (on the Mooer):

Sensitivity: 9-10 o'clock
Q: 2 o'clock
Decay: minimum
Tone: 11 o'clock
 
#9
isaiahdoggydog said:
Additionally, do y'all think it's a type of pedal problem or is it a me/my bass problem? I'm a bit of a pedalhoarder and it hurts my guts to send one back hehe...

Also, anyone tried Harley Benton Bass Camp? It looks as to be a copy of the BassBalls/Sweeper as well judging by the knobs but I find it a bit weird that it's a filter/chorus, reckon I would put a few dirt pedals of my choosing in between those types of effects...

View attachment 5292162
Click to expand...
That looks very interesting, I would probably add that to my collection if it were available here, shipping from Thomann is prohibitive.
 
#12
When I think “Quack” on an envelope filter or auto wah, I think a pretty fast attack, and a short release time with some strong mid action.

Having the Decay dimed may be working against you.

Try turn Decay way down.
Turn sensitivity way down as well until it doesn’t even trigger, then slowly turn that up as you play.
You want it to just start to trigger as you dig in.
Now adjust the Decay so the filter closes pretty quickly after being triggered.
Adjust the Freq until it gets in the sweet spot for the “honk” and “quack” you are shooting for.
 
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#14
You may get a starting place with others' known settings, but it can be fruitless to copy settings—the signal to the pedal is a main ingredient instigating the pedal's response. Increase harmonic content (e.g. mild fuzz or low gain overdrive to start) or gain. What's before the envelope filter in your chain?
 
#15
On the two pedals you have, the Freq/Tone controls do the same thing: adjust the center frequency of the filter effect (counter-clockwise for a lower sweep, clockwise for a higher sweep). As mentioned, the Decay controls how quickly the filter closes back to its starting potion after it is triggered (so lower decay means a faster, funkier filter), and the Sensitivity knob controls how much amplitude is required to trigger the effect (lower sensitivity for lighter touch, adjust to your playing style and signal strength). The Q knob on the Mooer controls the width of the filter sweep (as it does in any equalization method), so a more narrow Q will be more pronounced, while a wider Q will be more subtle. I’m not totally sure what the Presence knob on the Sonicake does, but my first guess would be it’s probably a Q control.
 
#16
bassbrad said:
@isaiahdoggydog Manchild Supplies, I like that may I use it?
Click to expand...

hahah it is all yours my man!

gh0st42 said:
When I think “Quack” on an envelope filter or auto wah, I think a pretty fast attack, and a short release time with some strong mid action.

Having the Decay dimed may be working against you.

Try turn Decay way down.
Turn sensitivity way down as well until it doesn’t even trigger, then slowly turn that up as you play.
You want it to just start to trigger as you dig in.
Now adjust the Decay so the filter closes pretty quickly after being triggered.
Adjust the Freq until it gets in the sweet spot for the “honk” and “quack” you are shooting for.
Click to expand...

I reckon you're completely correct! I'm going to test this on the Sonicake one since I (for some reason) have decay set to max. I think I had an idea that it would work like the decay on a reverb or delay.

ardgedee said:
Do you play with a light touch? Almost any envelope-following effect should react strongly if you pick hard.

Also - do you have any effects between your bass and the auto-wah?
Click to expand...

No sir, I do manhandle the strings usually, hence my high action, but I do play fingerstyle! on my "main board" I have the Sonicake Cry-bot as the second pedal with only the Sonicake Octaver before. On my messing-around-board the Mooer Envelope is first.

Ralph Manak said:
You may get a starting place with others' known settings, but it can be fruitless to copy settings—the signal to the pedal is a main ingredient instigating the pedal's response. Increase harmonic content (e.g. mild fuzz or low gain overdrive to start) or gain. What's before the envelope filter in your chain?
Click to expand...

Nothing before the filter! Only an octave pedal before the Sonicake one. I do have like 3-4 fuzzes on each board since I have an addiction but in my experience they seem to further cloud the effect of the filter, not sure what I'm doing wrong here... I did plug in my tele and the Mooer Envelope works great on guitar with minimal tweaking from the preferred bass setting.

Smurf-o-Deth said:
On the two pedals you have, the Freq/Tone controls do the same thing: adjust the center frequency of the filter effect (counter-clockwise for a lower sweep, clockwise for a higher sweep). As mentioned, the Decay controls how quickly the filter closes back to its starting potion after it is triggered (so lower decay means a faster, funkier filter), and the Sensitivity knob controls how much amplitude is required to trigger the effect (lower sensitivity for lighter touch, adjust to your playing style and signal strength). The Q knob on the Mooer controls the width of the filter sweep (as it does in any equalization method), so a more narrow Q will be more pronounced, while a wider Q will be more subtle. I’m not totally sure what the Presence knob on the Sonicake does, but my first guess would be it’s probably a Q control.
Click to expand...

Great information, thanks a bunch! Now I kind of get it I think haha, in my mind I thought the more I turn the knob - the more of the effect I get. The harm of mainly having dirtpedals I guess.
 
#17
isaiahdoggydog said:
...
Nothing before the filter! Only an octave pedal before the Sonicake one. I do have like 3-4 fuzzes on each board since I have an addiction but in my experience they seem to further cloud the effect of the filter, not sure what I'm doing wrong here... I did plug in my tele and the Mooer Envelope works great on guitar with minimal tweaking from the preferred bass setting....
Click to expand...

Guitar will juice the filter more than bass. I was testing several things the other day (digital and analog env filters), and a Broughton BBA in front helped to quickly dial in a responsive sweet spot. In thinking about effects, the source almost becomes secondary to the content/nature of the signal—and how that signal is manipulated.
 
#18
Ralph Manak said:
Guitar will juice the filter more than bass. I was testing several things the other day (digital and analog env filters), and a Broughton BBA in front helped to quickly dial in a responsive sweet spot. In thinking about effects, the source almost becomes secondary to the content/nature of the signal—and how that signal is manipulated.
Click to expand...

Cool! I have nothing equal to that Broughton but do you think I can get that with an EQ sort of pedal in front of the filter?
 
#19
isaiahdoggydog said:
Cool! I have nothing equal to that Broughton but do you think I can get that with an EQ sort of pedal in front of the filter?
Click to expand...

In my reading, the BBA does three things: filters out frequency extremes, buffers the signal, and is a clean boost. One or more of those features help. I think playing settings of an EQ in front of a filter can be educational at the least, and your source of magic at the best.
 
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