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Why are most cabs that are ported tuned absurdly high?

#21
bgavin said:
My signal analysis of my four basses (2 P, J, L1500) show the fundamental amplitude almost identical to the 2nd harmonic at the time of attack. The fundamental decays much more rapidly, but it is indeed present at the attack. Analysis software averages over time. Your ear hears the entire signal, including attack and decay.

The easy way to determine this is with a 31-band graphic equalizer driving a full range speaker system, such as a premium HiFi set: Drop all sliders below 60 Hz to zero, and see if you like the tone. If you get no change, then your bass isn't producing anything audible in the fundamentals.

However, if the tone is thin and drooping, you are cutting out the meat below the 60 Hz line. If you like your meat trimmed, that is fine; taste is subjective. If you don't like a thin tone, then use a cab that produces more fundamental.
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Point taken. I sometimes do use a Rane GE 30 EQ and all sliders have some effect on my tone (even 20hz but not drastic). I may have to re-think my strategy a bit. :hmm:
 
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#22
ibanezcollector said:
bgavin said:
...

For the original poster, going into the woodshop without a plan, is the same as getting into your car and just driving, and hoping you wind up somewhere "good". Your prototype might not totally suck, but it would be so much better if you had a well thought out plan. There is a huge wealth of free information and tools available to you. Use them; have a good result.
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I did not go in there and just randomly build a box of any dimension..

I stated at first that I am a amatuer speaker builder. My home stuff gets rave reviews by many who have had the chance to audition them.

I have been designing speakers for about 8 years. So this isnt my first attempt at designing a box. I did plan this out for almost 3 weeks.

Today I get to audition them, and will take some pics when I bring them home. If they come out as designed and sound the way I like them then I will be making them out of 11ply voidless birch.
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[I posted something here that bordered on being tacky, but I don't like tacky, so I deleted it.]

I am curious though, as to the details of your speaker design plan.
 
#23
the details.. Ok we first analyzed the stock warwick cabinet in a controlled room with 2 different rta's. From that we started designing with what I thought would be my perfect cabinet. We then moved the thiele specs into 4 programs and did some theoritical testing. We then moved on to production, and finally were at the finishing stage.

I had 3 bassists besides myself come and audition the cabinets,

one plays nu-metal tuned to A ala' Korn and said that our design is the best cabinets he has heard with a low end that is crisp and clear and doesnt turn to mud which he is used to. Hes using SWR cabinets. Ibanez K5 and Ampeg 5pro.

one plays Jazz and also remarked on the incredible clarity of the cabinets with incredibly rich low end that was smooth versus boomy he used his stock 80's Jazz bass

and the third was a friend who plays funk/slap and said that the cabinets were very nicely detailed and had a crispness he hasnt heard in a stock cabinet anywhere. He used his Fodera Monarch and my rig

And finally im over excited to get these rolling.. I am going to test them for a couple weeks and come up with what I like or think we can improve on. Then it will be made with 11 ply voidless baltic birch and finalized.

The guy I am working with has over 11 years in speaker design, I have 8 years under my belt. Were not just some guys in there backyard with a circular saw..

We have a person that is going to cut grilles for us on a Laser machine out of any metal we choose and he can also do band logos etc into the grille as well. :)

God I must spark the most controversial threads ever..
 
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#24
ibanezcollector said:
the details.. Ok we first analyzed the stock warwick cabinet in a controlled room with 2 different rta's. From that we started designing with what I thought would be my perfect cabinet. We then moved the thiele specs into 4 programs and did some theoritical testing. We then moved on to production, and finally were at the finishing stage.

I had 3 bassists besides myself come and audition the cabinets,

one plays nu-metal tuned to A ala' Korn and said that our design is the best cabinets he has heard with a low end that is crisp and clear and doesnt turn to mud which he is used to. Hes using SWR cabinets. Ibanez K5 and Ampeg 5pro.

one plays Jazz and also remarked on the incredible clarity of the cabinets with incredibly rich low end that was smooth versus boomy he used his stock 80's Jazz bass

and the third was a friend who plays funk/slap and said that the cabinets were very nicely detailed and had a crispness he hasnt heard in a stock cabinet anywhere. He used his Fodera Monarch and my rig

And finally im over excited to get these rolling.. I am going to test them for a couple weeks and come up with what I like or think we can improve on. Then it will be made with 11 ply voidless baltic birch and finalized.

The guy I am working with has over 11 years in speaker design, I have 8 years under my belt. Were not just some guys in there backyard with a circular saw..

We have a person that is going to cut grilles for us on a Laser machine out of any metal we choose and he can also do band logos etc into the grille as well. :)

God I must spark the most controversial threads ever..
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Thanks.

So your design is a modification of the Warwick cabinet's design?
 
#25
No our design is totally different internally then 90% of the cabs out there. We incorporated some ideas taken from several different areas of sound reproduction. Its not just an ordinary slot port or round ported internally, externally it has the look of a standard cab.

I decided on a 2x10 and horn in a sealed configuration for clarity and precision and a 2x10 ported to handle the beef and low end.

Im extremely pleased with the first prototype but like I said earlier, I am going to play with it for a couple weeks and see if there is anything we can do to improve.

These are more than likely going to be carpeted tommorrow evening.
 
#26
ibanezcollector said:
No our design is totally different internally then 90% of the cabs out there. We incorporated some ideas taken from several different areas of sound reproduction. Its not just an ordinary slot port or round ported internally, externally it has the look of a standard cab.

I decided on a 2x10 and horn in a sealed configuration for clarity and precision and a 2x10 ported to handle the beef and low end.

Im extremely pleased with the first prototype but like I said earlier, I am going to play with it for a couple weeks and see if there is anything we can do to improve.

These are more than likely going to be carpeted tommorrow evening.
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because they actually help people
 
#27
ibanezcollector said:
No our design is totally different internally then 90% of the cabs out there. We incorporated some ideas taken from several different areas of sound reproduction. Its not just an ordinary slot port or round ported internally, externally it has the look of a standard cab.

I decided on a 2x10 and horn in a sealed configuration for clarity and precision and a 2x10 ported to handle the beef and low end.

Im extremely pleased with the first prototype but like I said earlier, I am going to play with it for a couple weeks and see if there is anything we can do to improve.

These are more than likely going to be carpeted tommorrow evening.
Click to expand...
Do you mind sharing the T/S parameters, the box volume, and port tuning frequency?
 
#28
the T/S I have printed out at the store so its not handy but calling Warwick in Germany they will happily send them.

The ported box volume is 2.8 cube in a shared enclosure and tuned to 29hz with a couple tweaks to the interior to manipulate airflow

The sealed box volume is .9 cube per sub in seperate chambers with the tweeter seperated from the subs.

As of right now the prototype boxes were built using 3/4 MDF, And a few little tricks here and there internally. :)

For the port we both are a huge fan of Aeroport ports since they offer incredible port area in a smaller package and with less turbulance, also when tweaking they can very easily be tweaked when trying various tuning freqs in a real world enviroment.


The stock Warwick box was constructed of 3/4 and 5/8ths 5 ply, with no internal bracing besides a 3/4 x 2" piece running in the middle, the box volume after displacements were 5.3 cube tuned to 51hz
 
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#32
ibanezcollector said:
the T/S I have printed out at the store so its not handy but calling Warwick in Germany they will happily send them.
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Analogous to "No pic, no bass," should be: "No specs, no DIY cab." ;)

Actually, I wasn't thinking of building such a cab, but when DIY'ers post their designs, I enjoy entering them into my program and seeing how the graphs look.
 
#38
bgavin said:
My signal analysis of my four basses (2 P, J, L1500) show the fundamental amplitude almost identical to the 2nd harmonic at the time of attack. The fundamental decays much more rapidly, but it is indeed present at the attack. Analysis software averages over time. Your ear hears the entire signal, including attack and decay.
Click to expand...
Did you see thiis? I posted it yesterday. It's from a member on an audio forum, and all I remember is it's a 34" P style bass. Notice the fundamental level on the open E (LHS).
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=56264&d=1176693581
 

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