Why aren't musicians striking?

[definenredefine]

No, no one is entitled to anyone else's labor, of course not. That's a basic principle of freedom. What point was it that you thought you were making?

My point is that a lot of employers take it for granted that people need jobs and thus feel free to treat labor like garbage.

Lack of resources? You are talking about a group of some of the most highly-compensated professionals in our society. The idea that they lack the resources to compete in the market isn't a sensible suggestion.

Sure it is. Most writers/crew members/ancillary staff in show business are scraping by. There are actors (pretty much exclusively) that make a bunch of money per show or per year or whatever, but they seem to be pretty alone in that. The rest of the folks who work on movies/tv/etc aren't making enough money to even think of opening their production companies/studios/etc, let alone sustaining them. And their compensation has gotten worse over the last several years, even though profits in the industry have been soaring. Add to it that, by nature of where filming occurs, they pretty much have to live in some of the most expensive cities in the country (LA, NYC, Chicago, eg.)

That's kinda what the whole WGA strike is about.

 

[LBS-bass]

AFM has never given the slightest fig about the plight of young rock musicians being exploited by small clubs and bars, so I don't give the slightest fig for AFM.

AFM has been obsolete since the days of the big bands.

 

[amper]

My point is that a lot of employers take it for granted that people need jobs and thus feel free to treat labor like garbage.


Sure it is. Most writers/crew members/ancillary staff in show business are scraping by. There are actors (pretty much exclusively) that make a bunch of money per show or per year or whatever, but they seem to be pretty alone in that. The rest of the folks who work on movies/tv/etc aren't making enough money to even think of opening their production companies/studios/etc, let alone sustaining them. And their compensation has gotten worse over the last several years, even though profits in the industry have been soaring. Add to it that, by nature of where filming occurs, they pretty much have to live in some of the most expensive cities in the country (LA, NYC, Chicago, eg.)

That's kinda what the whole WGA strike is about.

Just for the record, I went to university at one of the top schools in the world for Theatre. I know a substantial number of people in the industry personally, from big names down to production staff. I'm more aware than most of what it's actually like.

 

[J Wilson]

Does the term 'Herding cats' ring a bell?

 

[Tom Bomb]

Herd it through the grape-vine. …

No. Scratch that.
​

 

[buldog5151bass]

My point is that a lot of employers take it for granted that people need jobs and thus feel free to treat labor like garbage.


Sure it is. Most writers/crew members/ancillary staff in show business are scraping by. There are actors (pretty much exclusively) that make a bunch of money per show or per year or whatever, but they seem to be pretty alone in that. The rest of the folks who work on movies/tv/etc aren't making enough money to even think of opening their production companies/studios/etc, let alone sustaining them. And their compensation has gotten worse over the last several years, even though profits in the industry have been soaring. Add to it that, by nature of where filming occurs, they pretty much have to live in some of the most expensive cities in the country (LA, NYC, Chicago, eg.)

That's kinda what the whole WGA strike is about.

There is no right to a job. You have to be able to offer a valuable skill/service to an employer.

 

[definenredefine]

There is no right to a job. You have to be able to offer a valuable skill/service to an employer.

I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that nobody is entitled to your labor, either. As such, if you're able to offer skills/services to an employer, they should be able to fairly compensate you and not overwork you. If they cannot offer a position that fulfils both of those conditions, they should not be offering employment.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that nobody is entitled to your labor, either. As such, if you're able to offer skills/services to an employer, they should be able to fairly compensate you and not overwork you. If they cannot offer a position that fulfils both of those conditions, they should not be offering employment.

What is "fairly compensate"? What is "not overwork"? I agree some employers are better than others, but there are as many employers who are barely scraping by as there are well off employers.

I say this as someone who has been both business owner and employee, and has worked as union employee and representing management.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Like mine dead.​

 

[BeMoreFrench]

In France we do strike, a lot, yeah not surprising . As long as you've got your 43 gigs declared at GUSO in a single year span, you're considered a pro called an "intermittent". But not only musicians:
- techs (audio, video, lights, logistics/stage setups, drivers, etc.) working in entertainment business are paid with those GUSO/intermittent 12 hours minimum wage
- comedians, actors, be it plays in theater or movies
- and finally musicians.

If you've made 2 years after baccalaureat graduation (your high school in the US, so 2 years in College/University), you can setup your own entertainment business and declare all the social cotisations to the GUSO, means that if an owner doesn't declare you, you can declare on your own the bank notes he gave you and pay for unemployment, healthcare, retirement cotisations. Same if you can show anything proving you've been an intermittent for 5 years.

No cotisations ? you're not a pro, worse of it all: you're considered an illegal worker, cos' gigging is considered being a job.
France pension reform strike: Musicians on strike since a month



Barbara Hannigan is hit by musicians' strike - Slippedisc

 

[definenredefine]

What is "fairly compensate"? What is "not overwork"? I agree some employers are better than others, but there are as many employers who are barely scraping by as there are well off employers.

I say this as someone who has been both business owner and employee, and has worked as union employee and representing management.

I don't mean to be evasive but I think those question are outside of the scope of the thread (and there are probably certain answers that could get the thread shut down...)

They are really good questions, though, so what I will say is I don't think there is (or could be) a standard definition of fair compensation or overwork. I think it would vary by industry, the kind of work involved (including how demanding, both physically and mentally/emotionally), and the size of the employer.

Ultimately, I think those are both very complicated questions with a lot of factors to consider in trying to answer them.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I don't mean to be evasive but I think those question are outside of the scope of the thread (and there are probably certain answers that could get the thread shut down...)

They are really good questions, though, so what I will say is I don't think there is (or could be) a standard definition of fair compensation or overwork. I think it would vary by industry, the kind of work involved (including how demanding, both physically and mentally/emotionally), and the size of the employer.

Ultimately, I think those are both very complicated questions with a lot of factors to consider in trying to answer them.

Directly from your quote. And I didn't ask why. And yes, I understand your position.

If you have a valuable skill, you will be paid for it. Why do many doctors, lawyers, electricians, plumbers, athletes, etc. get paid a good salary? Because of their skills, their employers make more money than if they didn't pay that salary. Why do Walmart clerks and McDonald's cooks not get paid more? Because the employee does not offer any special skill, and can be replaced without the employer being affected.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Directly from your quote. And I didn't ask why. And yes, I understand your position.

If you have a valuable skill, you will be paid for it. Why do many doctors, lawyers, electricians, plumbers, athletes, etc. get paid a good salary? Because of their skills, their employers make more money than if they didn't pay that salary. Why do Walmart clerks and McDonald's cooks not get paid more? Because the employee does not offer any special skill, and can be replaced without the employer being affected.

HVAC.
I had a compressor blow in a heat pump. The compressor was under warranty. I called the HVAC company who warrantied my part, they said the switch would cost $1000 labor.
I'm a stubborn man! I made 79 phonecalls. The best non warranty price i got was $1300.
I tucked my tail between my legs and went back to the original warrantor. Trying to live in The South with no AC in summer broke me. They got their price.

 

[Biggbass]

I've been striking for the pst 5 months. No one has noticed.