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Double Bass Why Do They Call It Double Bass?
- Thread starter tam82083
- Start date
Not an answer to the question, but interesting reading related to the topic at [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] - it's from the ISB.
...talking about soft consonants, in Brazialian Portugese Our Thang is called "contrabaixo", werein the " -ix- " is pronounced as a very very soft S.
R2
R2
Chasarms said:
A friend of mine majoring in German studies at U of Missouri-Columbia says the last syllable is pronounced "BASS" (like the fish/ale), but "lower"... so say it with your best Ahr-nold (Shwartzenegger) impression. ;-)
Chasarms said:
Here, here!
From this time forth, the upright bass shall be referred to as "The first four Black Sabbath albums"!
Heifetzbass
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- Feb 6, 2004
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Did anyone consider it to be called that because of the range?
Ie. Piano octaves. Middle c is c1, cello could be C and Double bass range is CC. (Speaking of the lowest frequencies)
Actually, the "Double Bass" pre-dates the piano, but I will look into that possibility from the theory side. I don't know when that terminology is dated.
I think it is fun to discuss such terminology, but I think what comes out of it is more important than a definitive answer. People get educated and have a healthy discussion. But, let's remember it is all academia.
Basses... get to practicin'.
BG
Ie. Piano octaves. Middle c is c1, cello could be C and Double bass range is CC. (Speaking of the lowest frequencies)
Actually, the "Double Bass" pre-dates the piano, but I will look into that possibility from the theory side. I don't know when that terminology is dated.
I think it is fun to discuss such terminology, but I think what comes out of it is more important than a definitive answer. People get educated and have a healthy discussion. But, let's remember it is all academia.
Basses... get to practicin'.
BG
Heifetzbass said:
See, you aren't following the rules. If you had done so, your post would have been correctly worded thusly:
Did anyone consider it to be called that because of the range?
Ie. Piano octaves. Middle c is c1, cello could be C and the first four Black Sabbath albums range is CC. (Speaking of the lowest frequencies)
Actually, the "first four Black Sabbath albums" pre-dates the piano, but I will look into that possibility from the theory side. I don't know when that terminology is dated.
You follow me?
allright, I'm a newb, but I always wanted to get a bass guitar (the electric ones) I dunno if this is the right place to do it, but there is no newb board (needs to be added).
I wanted to play the opening bass to "FTW" by the Vines, and the awesome bass in "Stockholm Syndrome" by Muse.
I don't know which Bass guitars make those sounds though...
Could someone tell me which ones? Like is it a double bass, an electric bass, and which brands if that really matters??
I wanted to play the opening bass to "FTW" by the Vines, and the awesome bass in "Stockholm Syndrome" by Muse.
I don't know which Bass guitars make those sounds though...
Could someone tell me which ones? Like is it a double bass, an electric bass, and which brands if that really matters??
Background reading recommended:
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/gibbons.html
The "earliest" reference to an instrument in English called the "dooble bass" is well before the classical era. That doesn't mean that it wasn't called that before then or was not simultaneously known as something else in another country at that time. Problematic is the fact that the lines in music were viewed from the musically functional point of view more than from which instrument they were written for.
My best speculation: It is difficult to easily establish with certainty so many things about the music of those periods. The church kept changing the standard tuning, so that was always in question depending on the Pope and the local relationship of government and church. It is likely that traveling bards largely disregarded these inconveniences. It was probably easier to characterize music more loosely into broad registers rather than name something a "Bb trumpet" for instance. So things wind up with names like "little violone" and "big violone" and "dooble bass". The result is that modern descendants have names like violin, violon-cello, and double bass. Double bass what(?) has always been the question and the answer is whatever stringed thing instrument with a tuning available to play that register be it fiddle or not.
By any estimation it has to be noted that the instrument evolved toward the violin family in construction and form for 400 yrs being pushed in design by its' use in the symphony orchestra. Perhaps now with 5, 6, and even 7 string instruments reappearing the double bass is devolving back toward it's violone (big viol) history and use in small consorts.
The bass guitar is a thoroughly modern adaptation primarily of an electric guitar. The acoustic bass guitar is a reverse adaptation of that. It is interesting from a functional standpoint that the important point is that you still need an instrument that plays that "register". Register is part of pipe organ terminology and refers to pipe registers. The "double bass" register is the 16' register.
There is one fellow (a guitarist luthier of course) who has a web page arguing that all these instruments (bowed viols) are really descended from guitars. Part of his claim is double bassed (couldn't resist) on the tuning scheme of the early instruments which used 4th tunings with an internal M3rd tuning and the presence of 5, 6, and 7 courses. I'd put the link to that here but I couldn't find it. He also claimed the Italians used figured maple (bought from the Turks) because the Turks would not sell them straight grained wood because of its' potentially strategic use in oars for naval ships. Straight grain resists breaking to a strategic degree. Interesting. Almost like the English controlling yew wood because of its' use in long bow constuction. Coincidentally, yew was the choice wood for the backs of lutes and the demise of the lute is sometime credited to the control of the yew supply.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/gibbons.html
The "earliest" reference to an instrument in English called the "dooble bass" is well before the classical era. That doesn't mean that it wasn't called that before then or was not simultaneously known as something else in another country at that time. Problematic is the fact that the lines in music were viewed from the musically functional point of view more than from which instrument they were written for.
My best speculation: It is difficult to easily establish with certainty so many things about the music of those periods. The church kept changing the standard tuning, so that was always in question depending on the Pope and the local relationship of government and church. It is likely that traveling bards largely disregarded these inconveniences. It was probably easier to characterize music more loosely into broad registers rather than name something a "Bb trumpet" for instance. So things wind up with names like "little violone" and "big violone" and "dooble bass". The result is that modern descendants have names like violin, violon-cello, and double bass. Double bass what(?) has always been the question and the answer is whatever stringed thing instrument with a tuning available to play that register be it fiddle or not.
By any estimation it has to be noted that the instrument evolved toward the violin family in construction and form for 400 yrs being pushed in design by its' use in the symphony orchestra. Perhaps now with 5, 6, and even 7 string instruments reappearing the double bass is devolving back toward it's violone (big viol) history and use in small consorts.
The bass guitar is a thoroughly modern adaptation primarily of an electric guitar. The acoustic bass guitar is a reverse adaptation of that. It is interesting from a functional standpoint that the important point is that you still need an instrument that plays that "register". Register is part of pipe organ terminology and refers to pipe registers. The "double bass" register is the 16' register.
There is one fellow (a guitarist luthier of course) who has a web page arguing that all these instruments (bowed viols) are really descended from guitars. Part of his claim is double bassed (couldn't resist) on the tuning scheme of the early instruments which used 4th tunings with an internal M3rd tuning and the presence of 5, 6, and 7 courses. I'd put the link to that here but I couldn't find it. He also claimed the Italians used figured maple (bought from the Turks) because the Turks would not sell them straight grained wood because of its' potentially strategic use in oars for naval ships. Straight grain resists breaking to a strategic degree. Interesting. Almost like the English controlling yew wood because of its' use in long bow constuction. Coincidentally, yew was the choice wood for the backs of lutes and the demise of the lute is sometime credited to the control of the yew supply.
This link: Invalid Link Removed
refers to
says that the Orlando Gibbons lived from 1583 to 1625. His "fantasias" manuscripts call for the "great dooble bass". He truly was a visionary, or maybe he was referring to an instrument that was contemporary to his day like the one at this link:
Invalid Link Removed
or here with a person for scale:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It is about the size of a 3/4 double bass;- instrument.
refers to
This link: http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/gibbons.html
says that the Orlando Gibbons lived from 1583 to 1625. His "fantasias" manuscripts call for the "great dooble bass". He truly was a visionary, or maybe he was referring to an instrument that was contemporary to his day like the one at this link:
Invalid Link Removed
or here with a person for scale:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It is about the size of a 3/4 double bass;- instrument.
I guess am just presenting what I've found googling from back when I first decided to pursue double bass. That was a few years before I actually acquired one and began playing as well as a few years before I joined the forum. So I've been researching the topic longer than I've been playing. The internet makes it easy for one to easily find what used to take thumbing through card catalogues. Admittedly, it is a recent advantage and like you say, seeking is the easiest way to find something, but it is even easier now. One still must remember that sources, even the best, are still usually partly someone's opinion, and as noted;- everyone has one.
Since the beginning, I've been interested in the earliest versions of the instrument, possibly sparked by an actual (reproduction) violone (DB sized) complete with tied on frets which was on display at Emile Baran's in Decatur. Finally I understood (tongue firmly in cheek) why the nut is so high on a new double bass;- it's so you have room to tie on the frets!
The interpretation of historical context is difficult because at some point one must call on imagination to fill in details. This leads to so many popular misconceptions. What men are most discontent with is the idea that they don't know something or can't explain it. At some point we have to admit that, well;- we don't know. Largely, without the best translaters and without inspection of iconography, we would have no idea what kind of instruments were played in antiquity. Most of them got knocked out of tune along the way. Looking at how similar the earliest extant ones are to modern ones, it is safe to assume that whatever we have now is slightly more refined than 400 years ago, with deliberate purpose. It did make it difficult in the beginning to research the instrument though;- what do you google for;- stand-up bass, acoustic bass, contrabass, bass violin, bass fiddle, double bass? Finally I think at some point I put "earliest double bass" in and got back a good start. Then I started looking at the construction, early construction, playing, sizes, tunings, iconography, etc.
Since the beginning, I've been interested in the earliest versions of the instrument, possibly sparked by an actual (reproduction) violone (DB sized) complete with tied on frets which was on display at Emile Baran's in Decatur. Finally I understood (tongue firmly in cheek) why the nut is so high on a new double bass;- it's so you have room to tie on the frets!
The interpretation of historical context is difficult because at some point one must call on imagination to fill in details. This leads to so many popular misconceptions. What men are most discontent with is the idea that they don't know something or can't explain it. At some point we have to admit that, well;- we don't know. Largely, without the best translaters and without inspection of iconography, we would have no idea what kind of instruments were played in antiquity. Most of them got knocked out of tune along the way. Looking at how similar the earliest extant ones are to modern ones, it is safe to assume that whatever we have now is slightly more refined than 400 years ago, with deliberate purpose. It did make it difficult in the beginning to research the instrument though;- what do you google for;- stand-up bass, acoustic bass, contrabass, bass violin, bass fiddle, double bass? Finally I think at some point I put "earliest double bass" in and got back a good start. Then I started looking at the construction, early construction, playing, sizes, tunings, iconography, etc.
Sorry to resurrect this if it annoys. This is purely just my own thinking, zero research done becuase i'm lazy. Here are my thoughts - could it be that meaning of the word changed in different countries, that the true meaning is kind of lost in translation (great movie)?
'Contrabass' would be a much better english description I think, but it's just not the case! A 'contra-' instrument usually means as octave lower than the regular instrument, for example, contrabassoon, contra-bass trombone. Then given that the cello was often referred to as the bass, it would make sense that an instruemnt sounding an octave lower should be 'contra'bass. When translated into English, the contra instruments were referred to for some time as 'double', i.e. double bassoon, double bass trombone. (is this still the case in the states?) Also this worked in reverse, eg. cor anglais and 'english horn'. I think that it is called double bass because of register rather than 'purpose'. If it were purpose it would kind of make sense to call the violins 'melodies', violas 'inner voices', cellos 'basses', and double basses something like 'doubled basses'. I hope you can follow my logic here!
Perhaps 'double bass' was translated as this at the time when it was true of both register and, to a degree, function.
Also if it were a fuctional term, 'octobass' might make more sense no? (yes i know it's another instrument).
Then again, this is just the way I thinking of it, and haven't really done any research. At all.
'Contrabass' would be a much better english description I think, but it's just not the case! A 'contra-' instrument usually means as octave lower than the regular instrument, for example, contrabassoon, contra-bass trombone. Then given that the cello was often referred to as the bass, it would make sense that an instruemnt sounding an octave lower should be 'contra'bass. When translated into English, the contra instruments were referred to for some time as 'double', i.e. double bassoon, double bass trombone. (is this still the case in the states?) Also this worked in reverse, eg. cor anglais and 'english horn'. I think that it is called double bass because of register rather than 'purpose'. If it were purpose it would kind of make sense to call the violins 'melodies', violas 'inner voices', cellos 'basses', and double basses something like 'doubled basses'. I hope you can follow my logic here!
Perhaps 'double bass' was translated as this at the time when it was true of both register and, to a degree, function.
Also if it were a fuctional term, 'octobass' might make more sense no? (yes i know it's another instrument).
Then again, this is just the way I thinking of it, and haven't really done any research. At all.
T
T-rtz
Guest
As said before, "Double bass" is translated in italian an "Contrabbasso"
I think it's because the we read the notes in F clef, but the resulting sound is lowered by an octave.
Come to think about it:
Cello players read our same key, but they sound one octave higher, but it's not a quirk of their instrument: it's ours that transposes down an octave.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason
I think it's because the we read the notes in F clef, but the resulting sound is lowered by an octave.
Come to think about it:
Cello players read our same key, but they sound one octave higher, but it's not a quirk of their instrument: it's ours that transposes down an octave.
I'm pretty sure this is the reason
I believe that the Double Bass does not play the actual notes written on the stave, it is playing an octave lower hence the double this is to make writing arrangements easier, with fewer leger lines below the stave/staff, the Tuba in brass/military (British) bands is refered to as BBb for the same reason.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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David Kaczorowski said:
Interesting!
The Italian suffix "one" (own-ay) means big, and (as you know) violone just means big viol. I wonder how the contruction of the double bass differs structurally from the violone?
I was always under the impression that the double bass IS the violone, albeit having different proportions, "f-hole" shapes and tuners, no the tied frets, and with a more standardized (though variable) number of strings. Perhaps you can elaborate?
I am curious what the source of your information is that the construction of double basses is borrowed from the violin family (just curious, not doubting). Isn't the reverse also possible (there are examples of well-preserved 17th cent. violins with frets--my wife has see one owned by Katherina Meints)? Is it possible that builders/cottage "factories" frequently built both families in the 17th cent.?
BTW, one of my old bass teachers from the Boston Symphony (Leslie Martin) claimed that one of his basses was made in ~1670. It was very tall and deep, and had extremely narrow shoulders and lower bouts, as well as a flat back. He said it had been a violone.
KSB - Ken Smith said:
"The double bass is known by a variety of other names: contra bass, string bass, bass viol, or simply bass ("Bass Violin" is an amateurish misnomer.)" - From The Technique of Orchestration by Donald Grantham and Kent Kennan; page 27.
This is a short chapter and contains all of the "bassic" information covered in this thread, save historical. Keep in mind that this information is very general and not always accurate with regards to solo repertoire.
Well here are all the names I have heard that may or not be correct but just what I heard:
acustic bass, bass viol, contra bass, double bass, string bass,
standup bass, upright bass, bull bass, bass fiddle, bull fiddle,
doghouse bass. I dont know what's correct, these are the
names I have heard if your making a list.
acustic bass, bass viol, contra bass, double bass, string bass,
standup bass, upright bass, bull bass, bass fiddle, bull fiddle,
doghouse bass. I dont know what's correct, these are the
names I have heard if your making a list.
