Why does it seem so many players use 5th fret vs Open string?

[1954bassman]

While I do not "avoid" open strings, I do not use them much. Mainly because I play in about seven different group settings, and there is overlap in some of the songs I play in these settings. That is, some of the same songs but in different keys. So not playing many open notes makes transposing simpler.

When playing using NNS charts, I seldom use open notes unless one falls in a really signature riff of the song.

If I found myself avoiding open notes because of a huge difference in the tone or sound of a open vs fretted note, I would change something (bass, strings, pickup height, something).

 

[Honch]

It's just completely backwards from guitar thinking I guess. That is what is throwing me off.

I do understand economy (thought open is often a lot faster ), control I certainly get which is part of the expressiveness I can see.

Look, there's another thread about how some metalists of today favors drop tunings, and gets basses that has alternate tunings. So they can use open strings in those keys. I think on bass, when you play, it's more (way more) important to DAMPEN the notes while you're playing. If you say play an A on the 5th fret on the E string, you can stop the note by lifting off the finger, while your picking hand fingers plays other notes or is at other places. If you have to play an open A string you mostly have to damp it with picking hand fingers since your fretting hand is at other places. If you should dampen that open string with left (fretting) hand, chances are that it sort of both sounds awkward and feels awkward. It doesn't stop immediately. Open strings are for pedalling occasionally.

Say, if play the simplest type of country tune bassline. The simple of the simplest 2 bar shifts in fourths. And you switch between the A and E note, in a country tune that goes in A major key. Just test how the flow is different from when you're switching from the 5th fret A on E string and switches down to low E. Now, try the same pattern by using only open A and open E string. Sounds a little... daft, naff don't you think? However, low E must always be played open since there's no alternatives up the neck.

But I don't think it's that usual. me myself favors different keys thee days, as I just got fed up with songs in keys that has root notes on open strings regular tuning.

 

[Steven Ayres]

On a bass you're not just playing the fundamental tone, you're playing the harmonics of the note as well. That's why the tone changes in different parts of the neck — it's not a failure of the instrument, it's physics. This principle pushes upright players to avoid open strings where practical.

But there are no rules.

 

[JimmyM]

I want to add, that in my opinion the "different tone" argument is bad. I know it's real, but, I consider that a flaw in the instrument, strings, pickups, amp, cabs, EQ, etc. That's just my opinion. I prefer a much more even sound, fat and clear all around. I know it might work for different styles like slap/pop or whatever and I know it goes far back. Carol Kay did it. But it's something that I avoid.

Well I agree that you can do things to make the bass not sound like you're playing a different bass when you play an open note (IMHO pickups are quite important to that, believe it or not), but you can't change the laws of physics, and different notes in different positions of the fretboard will sound different. It's unrealistic to expect the open D to sound like the D on the E string at the 11th fret. And even in the best scenarios, some notes will sound better in some positions than others. A lot of that is bassline dependent, too. Like one song will great played on lower frets and open notes and another will require being played up high to sound right.

 

[Hounddog409]

I've just started playing bass "seriously", I've always pretended I was a guitar player for the past 30 years.

As I learn songs on bass or look up a video to make sure I'm getting it right. I notice most people will play the A on the E string and the D on the A string vs an open note.

Now I played a gig with a 5 string Spirit by Steinberger and the open D was quite a bit dead (might have been old strings) so I found myself always hitting the 5th fret on the A string for a D and I thought I was probably "getting by" or "cheating" in a sense. Then I see this being used a LOT.

I know the strings give their own tone to things which is why Tony Iomi (Black Sabbath guitar player) played things like paranoid WAY up on the 12th fret of the E strings, because it had a "better" sound. I can certainly see that a lot of times, especially with say the D as that string starts to get thin and barky sounding. But the A is pretty solid sounding in open.

I know each song is different and each player is different and there is a time and need for such a thing. But I've learned a few songs recently that seem to really have the bass player playing the 5th fret when an Open A would have been just as good if not even easier.

As a guitarist the open strings typically sound better and we use them when we can, except in cases of ease or sound like in Tony's case.

What am I missing as a beginner to the instrument?

I don't like playing open strings. Simple as that. I always chose fretted where possible.

 

[castlev]

imho for rock music or anything of the sorts, when playing a chorus i would use the 5th fret because its beefier sounding, gives more fullness, if i was playing a verse, i'd use the next string open for laid back parts.

 

[Ellery]

The reason I use a 5 string in my band is to use the fretted e or the open e depending on the sound I want, even on different riffs in the same song.

 

[aguacateojos]

Some great stuff said here. I'd throw out that, although a fretted note might be preferable to open strings, you should analyze your parts for places where an open string would facilitate a position shift. Check out James Jamerson for a few examples of some dope playing with open strings placed nicely.

 

[two fingers]

Hey Welcome to TalkBass @Gilligan8 !!!!!

I use whichever position works best tone wise and fingering wise. They do sound different. The strings react differently when they are "shorter" (by being up on the 5th fret). The notes are rounder. Open position seems to have more "snap" and brightness to me. Plus, sometimes one position or the other will be dictated by where I have to go next. Learn to think ahead and you will be a LONG ways toward being a competent bassist. Transitions is what we do. They need to be smooth both musically and physically.

Be fluent at using both (and more) positions. It will serve you well in the long run.

Great question right out of the box!

 

[NortyFiner]

Pretty much what everyone already said but I'll toss this in to narrow it down. Try this without using open strings:

I've always thought that main repeating riff throughout the intro and verses of that song sounds a lot like a left-handed roll in boogie piano.

 

[lavmonga]

Pretty much what everyone already said but I'll toss this in to narrow it down. Try this without using open strings:
I want to add, that in my opinion the "different tone" argument is bad. I know it's real, but, I consider that a flaw in the instrument, strings, pickups, amp, cabs, EQ, etc. That's just my opinion. I prefer a much more even sound, fat and clear all around. I know it might work for different styles like slap/pop or whatever and I know it goes far back. Carol Kay did it. But it's something that I avoid.

Respectfully disagree. Just purely on the physics of it, a not played open from saddle to nut should should different than a not from saddle to fifth fret based upon composition of the materials and distance from the end points, right? I'm not saying the tone is night and day, but I've never played a bass, ever, where a fretted fifth fret and an open string sound the same.

 

[CRich0205]

For me it really depends on the line I'm trying to play. If an open string gives me a chance to shift my left hand position I will use it. If i don't need to shift and I'm going from an A to a B then ill probably play the fretted note. Moving up the neck the tone changes some but I notice a bigger difference going from string to string.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

A few reasons fort that:

• one of which has already been mentioned and that is the timbre of the sound is different on the same note played in different positions on the neck. There was one song that I was playing where I moved up high on the E string to play part of it instead of moving over to the D string, which would have made it much more convenient to play. I asked the band members to listen to the difference and they said they couldn't tell any difference when we were all playing. So I went ahead and played it in a much more convenient fretting location instead of shifting my hand way up on the neck. We later did a recording and what I though sounded noticeably different playing my part by myself had no distinguishable difference in the recording of the entire group playing.

• The second thing I'd point out about using the 5th fret instead of the open string is it is much easier to mute than an open string. You can just release or ease the finger pressure instead of using using another finger in your fretting hand or using your plucking hand to mute the ringing open string. So muting is definitely a consideration.

• The third thing has been covered a few times already, and that's the ability to easily transpose up or down a half-step, full-step, or more. If you only learn to finger it with the open strings, then you can't move it out of the key that the open strings work in.

 

[physics]

One of the positive differences that I noticed when I replaced the stock plastic "Tektoid" nut on my Gibson Tbird with a bone nut was that the difference in sound between fretted and open strings was less. When I play I feel that I can use either choice and the difference will not be so noticeable, the choice now is more dependent on other factors.

I still prefer the sustaining ringing of an open note on things like an ending full note at the end of a piece.

 

[bobdabilder]

Fretted notes have a similar timber to me. I don't play open notes usually.

 

[darwin-bass]

Very simple - it sounds better and it puts your L hand in an easier playing position where frets are closer together.

 

[rocu]

Very simple - it sounds better and it puts your L hand in an easier playing position where frets are closer together.

This.

And every other reason. But for me, mainly this.

 

[tattooSAM]

As other players have noted - much of using the 5th fret is tone.

Another reason I use it to mute a note by lifting off the string.

As a bassist, one should be as concerned about rhythm as you are about melody. I have played guitar as long as I have played bass, and as a guitarist, you can stray from the rhythm of the song. As a bassist, one should never stray from the beat.

 

[zontar]

I use both--depending on the song.
One thing I like to do on some songs is to play both the 5th fret & the open string--so I alternate the 5th fret A with the open A--or I play both together.
On some songs this gives a nice full sound that enhances a song.
I do that with D as well, and also do the octave with the open E & 7th fret on the 3rd string (On a 4 string)

It doesn't work for every song--but when it does it gives more guts to it.
And if the chord changes are some combination of A, D & E--well I have to do that--it works even better.

 

[flam]

I prefer to use the 5th fret because I find it easier to control the string and mute it when I need to.