JazznFunk
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Jazz-savvy drummers I LOVE that I have played with locally/regionally: Micah Thomas, Rick Dilling, Tony Creasman, Brian Palmieri, Brian Sullivan, Sonny Thorton.
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Double Bass Why don't drummers get more love here? (mostly a jazz rant - DB Forum Thread)
- Thread starter RBrownBass
- Start date
A shout out for my good friend Bill O’Connell in Chicago. Leads a big band, a Chicago/Chase cover band, and a Santana tribute. He is a Drum Shark!
The drummer I play with most often studies with Joe - I unabashedly express my love for him, and Joe, on a regular basis
As you/he should!
That's very cool for your drummer.The complete natural ease that Joe has playing some of the best percussion that I have ever seen ( which is a lot ) is what blew me away the few times that I had the pleasure to see him live. A "smooth" player in the very best of terms.
Yes.. the “complete and natural ease” is a rare attribute. One of the concepts Joe L spoke to in his teaching to the drummer I work with is the importance of learning to comp for bass solos with that ease of touch - he said every bass player would LOVE him for putting in the work to achieve that touch.
Getting back to the OP, in a jazz context, even many drummers who have good time, ideas, etc. do wind up being too loud - too loud for us as bass players playing an acoustic instrument to hear ourselves well - sometimes not at all. Our frequency range can often be overtaken by heavy bass drum foot, snare hits, cymbals.. ( same for piano players who lack awareness ) IME many drummers were not taught how to feather the bass drum, choose the right cymbals or drum sizes for the context and room, nor play generally with the touch we spoke of.
Communicate any of these frustrations respectfully and a good rhythm partner will understand and work with you. When you find those drummers, treat them well!
p.s. another drummer who has that touch and has posted fantastic content on YouTube that you can share with your drummer is Rick Dior.
Getting back to the OP, in a jazz context, even many drummers who have good time, ideas, etc. do wind up being too loud - too loud for us as bass players playing an acoustic instrument to hear ourselves well - sometimes not at all. Our frequency range can often be overtaken by heavy bass drum foot, snare hits, cymbals.. ( same for piano players who lack awareness ) IME many drummers were not taught how to feather the bass drum, choose the right cymbals or drum sizes for the context and room, nor play generally with the touch we spoke of.
Communicate any of these frustrations respectfully and a good rhythm partner will understand and work with you. When you find those drummers, treat them well!
p.s. another drummer who has that touch and has posted fantastic content on YouTube that you can share with your drummer is Rick Dior.
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It would be nice to get thread back on track by talking about some great jazz drummers we have heard
The best drummer I've heard live is Charlie Stratford, who plays with the Rob Terry trio. As a fellow audience member commented to me, one could clearly hear the form as he took a solo.
It's hard to find a good example online but there are some recordings of this trio on YouTube.
It sounds like the key for you is to stop hiring Scottish percussionists.
You know, you may be onto something there. Next guy shows up naked and painted blue, I'm gonna bail right from the start.
I'll take a whack at offering a personal take on answering the OP's question:
I've played (DB and EB) with really talented Jazz drummers who considered themselves talented jazz drummers. The problem I observed with (I think I can say possibly a majority of them) is they were so into "jazz drumming" that their head was really immersed in THEIR chops and what really cool "jazz-drumming thing" they were going to do next, seemingly having the whole tune mapped-out and pre-planned in their head to the exclusion of actually listening to the rest of the band.
Sometimes it caused them to have noticeable timing diversions from the rest of the band. More importantly, they were often just doing a string of difficult and really cool licks that "fit" (they KNEW the material) but they were not mind-meshed with the rest of the band or "in the moment", so a "real groove" seldom happens.
Conversely, (and perhaps counter-intuitively) my favorite drummers I've played with in a jazz situation have been talented drummers who said going in "well I don't know, I'm mainly a rock and roll drummer, but I'll do my best". THOSE guys knew more jazz than they wanted to advertise, but more importantly, they were listening intently, meshed with the band, the groove was there, the dynamics were FAR better (listening and in-the-moment) and everyone thoroughly enjoyed the ride.
Maybe this makes some sense.
