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Why DON'T you play a short-scale?

#381
I don't see the point in measuring your finger stretch. Seems like over thinking to me. What matters is you can fret notes cleanly with proper intonation.

I play a 35" and 34" and my hands are not big. I have never really wanted a shorter scale. If someone let me try one I would give it a run though..why not? My point is that I never played my necks and thought "this is too much for me".

If a small girl like Tal can destroy on a 34" neck, I think that should put the hand measurements to rest.
 
#382
The hand measurement thing was interesting to me, because I'd never seen it before. I'm more used to hand measurements in a football context, where the measurement is from tip-of-pinky to tip-of-thumb.

The other interesting thing about it is that tip-of-pinky to tip-of-forefinger, my left hand measures a full inch longer than my right hand. I've long known this, it comes from stretching to get that extra two frets for many years -- I just never bothered to measure it.
 
#383
edpal said:
Could also be that people who care about scale length are the better players - so good they notice any little thing impeding their success at doing so. Might depend on what kind of material you play - country/blues, primal death metal or CHristian contemporary it probably doesn't matter since you have lots of time between notes or fewer note changes. For playing fast rock, technical jazz,etc. one plays best on something that feel perfect in their hands. A short scale will never feel right in my paws. I'm not putting them down, I'm sure there are some great ones.

But thanks for assuming our playing sucks.
Click to expand...

During an audition the other day, I brought a P and a J. I didn't appreciate it, but the band wanted me to play their Gibson Ripper. They also wanted me to play with a pick, which I didn't appreciate either. But regardless I picked up the Ripper and the pick and started playing. I don't recall a Ripper's scale length, but it had a different feel. Doesn't matter, because I played it without a hitch. Very trebley-sounding instrument, by the way.

Many of the best musicians to ever play can switch between instruments like it's nothing. I'm more inclined to believe that someone who can't handle different scale lengths, should the moment arise, is lacking in versatility. You probably play great on one scale length, but if you can't pick up an instrument with a different scale length and play it just the same, that's probably something to consider working on.
 
#384
BlueTalon said:
The hand measurement thing was interesting to me, because I'd never seen it before. I'm more used to hand measurements in a football context, where the measurement is from tip-of-pinky to tip-of-thumb.

The other interesting thing about it is that tip-of-pinky to tip-of-forefinger, my left hand measures a full inch longer than my right hand. I've long known this, it comes from stretching to get that extra two frets for many years -- I just never bothered to measure it.
Click to expand...
Along the same line...my plucking fingers are slightly curved a little sideways from years of fingerstyling while my fretting hand(also wider by about an inch on fingertip measurement) has this muscle memory thing that puts the 2 middle fingers together and index and pinky both lean outward at like 15 degrees from the middle 2. I think it's from the fairly common rock bass thing of fretting a lot with 3 fingers and using Mr. Pinky for fretting the faster flourishes and stretches like hammer-ons, chording, and stops.

Back on topic...play what feels good people, we're all built differently.
 
#385
DrSpunkwater said:
During an audition the other day, I brought a P and a J. I didn't appreciate it, but the band wanted me to play their Gibson Ripper. They also wanted me to play with a pick, which I didn't appreciate either. But regardless I picked up the Ripper and the pick and started playing. I don't recall a Ripper's scale length, but it had a different feel. Doesn't matter, because I played it without a hitch. Very trebley-sounding instrument, by the way.

Many of the best musicians to ever play can switch between instruments like it's nothing. I'm more inclined to believe that someone who can't handle different scale lengths, should the moment arise, is lacking in versatility. You probably play great on one scale length, but if you can't pick up an instrument with a different scale length and play it just the same, that's probably something to consider working on.
Click to expand...

Rippers are trebly sounding in two settings of the switch and awesomely sexy rich rock punchy sounding in the other two settings. Two bad they didn't bother showing you what the controls do... Rippers are unique and special basses, easily the best bass ever from Gibson. Also have a midrange control... All passive!

Besides that... I agree with you :-)
 
#386
DrSpunkwater said:
Many of the best musicians to ever play can switch between instruments like it's nothing. I'm more inclined to believe that someone who can't handle different scale lengths, should the moment arise, is lacking in versatility. You probably play great on one scale length, but if you can't pick up an instrument with a different scale length and play it just the same, that's probably something to consider working on.
Click to expand...
I think anyone who has been at it for a while has had to switch instruments and it isn't always a problem. But why should I practice squeezing into 34" waist pants when 36" are what feel best? Sort of like I don't think kissing dudes would make me better at kissing my wife.


THe underlined part makes no sense to me - it IS a different instrument, it will never be the same in all ways. And pro players are always talking about how it takes them week, months, an entire tour in some cases to decide if they love or hate a particular instrument. Certainly us common peons can be at least as picky, with our miniscule pool of talent.

The "lacking in versatility" comments are just weak - I'd rather be versatile in my playing than in making my playing accommodate the instrument unless i HAVE too.

Don't want to be a "jack of all axes, master of none."
 
#388
edpal said:
Could also be that people who care about scale length are the better players - so good they notice any little thing impeding their success at doing so. Might depend on what kind of material you play - country/blues, primal death metal or CHristian contemporary it probably doesn't matter since you have lots of time between notes or fewer note changes. For playing fast rock, technical jazz,etc. one plays best on something that feel perfect in their hands. A short scale will never feel right in my paws. I'm not putting them down, I'm sure there are some great ones.

But thanks for assuming our playing sucks.
Click to expand...

You missed my point, which is that those who are so consumed in 'my way or the highway' thus ignoring all the great players who have chosen any particular scale, seem to be more into the equipment rather than the skill. Like I said, to each their own, more power to them. The others probably do suck.:bassist:
 
#389
mtsens1 said:
You missed my point, which is that those who are so consumed in 'my way or the highway' thus ignoring all the great players who have chosen any particular scale, seem to be more into the equipment rather than the skill. Like I said, to each their own, more power to them. The others probably do suck.:bassist:
Click to expand...
Well, I'd agree the bickering is silly - most here are playing what they prefer. From where I'm standing it seems that some of the short scale players are coming across like long scale players are talentless or posers at very least. The topic gets into the grey area populated by "lined fretless is lame", "4 string players aren't as good as 5...and 5 strings ain't as good as 6". Depending on how the initial thread is written these all have a high, natural troll factor since it is a matter of very personal preference, like selecting which steak sauce is the best.
The short scale guys know which long scales the long scale crowd likes - tell us about the great short scales so we can keep an eye out and maybe become a convert. Instead of attacking playing ability and versatility.
 
#391
edpal said:
I think anyone who has been at it for a while has had to switch instruments and it isn't always a problem. But why should I practice squeezing into 34" waist pants when 36" are what feel best? Sort of like I don't think kissing dudes would make me better at kissing my wife.


THe underlined part makes no sense to me - it IS a different instrument, it will never be the same in all ways. And pro players are always talking about how it takes them week, months, an entire tour in some cases to decide if they love or hate a particular instrument. Certainly us common peons can be at least as picky, with our miniscule pool of talent.

The "lacking in versatility" comments are just weak - I'd rather be versatile in my playing than in making my playing accommodate the instrument unless i HAVE too.

Don't want to be a "jack of all axes, master of none."
Click to expand...

I imagine I'm wasting my time with this argument, but here goes.

It's not weak to suggest a lack of versatility. It's a lot like a guitarist picking up a Les Paul or a Telecaster and being able to play one but not the other. That sort of thing is a severe red flag, and that guitarist needs to work on their playing. A musician should be able to pick up a variety of instruments and play them relatively well, regardless of preferences.

Some notable examples of bassists switching instruments:

Jack Bruce - Switched between an EB1 and a fretless long scale Warwick during the Cream reunion.
Geddy - Switched between his Jazz and Ric frequently back in the day.
Chris Squire - Sometimes plays a jazz in between playing a Ric.
Lemmy - Has been known to play an SG bass if his Rics are down and out.

I'm sure there are more examples.

I'm not saying to abandon your main instrument. But if you can't even play other instruments, that sounds like a problem to me.
 
#392
DrSpunkwater said:
I imagine I'm wasting my time with this argument, but here goes.

It's not weak to suggest a lack of versatility. It's a lot like a guitarist picking up a Les Paul or a Telecaster and being able to play one but not the other. That sort of thing is a severe red flag, and that guitarist needs to work on their playing. A musician should be able to pick up a variety of instruments and play them relatively well, regardless of preferences.

Some notable examples of bassists switching instruments:

Jack Bruce - Switched between an EB1 and a fretless long scale Warwick during the Cream reunion.
Geddy - Switched between his Jazz and Ric frequently back in the day.
Chris Squire - Sometimes plays a jazz in between playing a Ric.
Lemmy - Has been known to play an SG bass if his Rics are down and out.

I'm sure there are more examples.

I'm not saying to abandon your main instrument. But if you can't even play other instruments, that sounds like a problem to me.
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Answering in reverse order.
Nobody said they couldn't play a different instrument, they said they don't care for it. It might take just a hair off their playing as you put it, "relatively well." The Les Paul vs Tele example - a reasonably good guitarist will be able to play both but they require different hand and body positioning, mainly because of the Les's thicker body, lack of upper horn,etc. I've known lots of guys who own & play both and seem to think one is better than the other for certain stuff.

Jack Bruce - you jumped from a fretted short to a fretless long. The player would naturally expect something very different from each. Next 2 guys were sticking with long scale, narrower necked instruments.
Lemmy - I love Motorhead but Lemmy's a fairly rudimentary player, generally chugging away within the first 5 frets other than a rare flourish. So him switching between short and long doesn't seem a real good example.

For playing where one is scaling from 1st through 5th fret, jumping to 12-15, then back,etc. muscle memory is going to fight against anything being moved, however trivial. I'd rather bring a second ax to a gig than own a different scale instrument just to practice on it for the rare occasion I have to play one.
 
#393
edpal said:
The short scale guys know which long scales the long scale crowd likes - tell us about the great short scales so we can keep an eye out and maybe become a convert. Instead of attacking playing ability and versatility.
Click to expand...

Great short scale players? Look here :[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Great short scale basses? Think Gretsch (most are short/med), Gibson short scales: SG, thunderbird, les paul. Fender: Mustang, ton's of custom basses too, like the Landing I'm having built. Just to name a few.

Seriously, put any scale in the hands of a good player, and I doubt anyone can call the scale just by listening.

Here are a few.
 

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#395
I love Gibson guitars so much. That bass is probably a blast.

But everyone keeps posting the same links to the same site, which is owned (im pretty sure) by one of the posters in this thread...I think the OP. So it gets redundant.
 
#396
topo morto said:
But a short scale is always going to allow the same player to do a lot more.

Seems weird to limit yourself by playing a more difficult size unless you really need to.
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These 2 sentences in the OP(original post) were the "blood in the water". An absolute(I added the underlining) followed by name calling rarely ends well.

Threads that acknowledge we have different preferences and that we're not weird for having a preference usually work out better. Nobody needs to set up camp and stand guard in that case.:hiding:
 

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