Why is 4x12 for guitar and 4x10 for bass? (or 8x, 2x, etc)

[BassmanPaul]

I'm using 4 12's in two TC Electronic BC212 cabs. They sound great.

And they'd sound even better on their ends in a vertical stack!

Edit: Not the same cabinets but the principle is the same. At one time I'd stack my Acme B2 cabinets in the same way that you do. One day, on a tightish stage, I stacked them vertically to give myself more room. I was a little more chubby in those days. i was seriously blown away by how much better I could hear myself an how the entire room was covered. i never went back to my old ways.

All I'm saying is try them out vertically. If that leaves you wanting more stack 'em how you usually do.

 

[BassmanPaul]

The volume of air being moved is the difference between barley audible and loud.

You been into the beer again bro??

 

[west al]

I'm using 4 12's in two TC Electronic BC212 cabs. They sound great.

And they'd sound even better on their ends in a vertical stack!

Edit: Not the same cabinets but the principle is the same. At one time I'd stack my Acme B2 cabinets in the same way that you do. One day, on a tightish stage, I stacked them vertically to give myself more room. I was a little more chubby in those days. i was seriously blown away by how much better I could hear myself an how the entire room was covered. i never went back to my old ways.

All I'm saying is try them out vertically. If that leaves you wanting more stack 'em how you usually do.

I know what you're saying about vertical stacking, but with a 65 pound Super Bassman up top, thinner cabs aren't that stable, to not fall over. The head is also longer than the cab is wide when vertically stacked.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Why?

 

[BassmanPaul]

I know what you're saying about vertical stacking, but with a 65 pound Super Bassman up top, thinner cabs aren't that stable, to not fall over. The head is also longer than the cab is wide when vertically stacked.

Strangely, in the fifty plus years of playing bass, I have yet to have an amp fall off the top of my cabinets! For this I'm thankful.

Even perched atop my vertical stack of 2x10s the whole tower is really stable. If you are concerned get a tray stand like they use in restaurants to put the amp on. These can be bought quite cheaply at a restaurant supply place. They hold a surprisingly heavy load. I've used them to hold a voice Of the theatre bass cabinet with a huge Altec horn on top. Sixty five pounds is nothing to them.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I have a few of those, and a luggage stand, too, which works especially well for cabinets.

 

[vdub75]

i'd just take a piece of thick plywood (sized double the width and depth of the cabinet), screw two hooks to it, put the cabinets on top and use belts to fix em (hope you understood what i mean, I am no native speaker so sometimes it's hard to find the right words)

 

[Thor]

Ive never heard that anywhere before. why would 12's be inherently subject to distortion compared to 10's or 15s?

@eyeballkid

Not compared to 10's or 15's that are bass drivers. The statement addresses sound reproduction versus sound production. For accurate sound REproduction, engineers use X-over networks to feed low, mid or high frequencies to the appropriate driver in a sound system because large drivers do not reproduce high frequencies well, not do tweeters do well with low frequencies. The reference that follows is a typical discussion of X-over networks, what they do and why we use them. There is much more info avail on the internet if you care to pursue the topic on your own.
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/crossovers

However, this distortion often is desirable in a guitar rig. Not so much a bass rig though IMO.

 

[Thor]

This thread is entertaining! Both Ampeg and Acoustic offered 4x12 cab's 40 years ago.

The Acoustic 2x15 Model 106 is 135 lbs. (I still have one of those beasts I bought in 1975) The 4x12 had to be heavier. I don't think that the market is there anymore for cabs with that kind of weight.
Nor do bands have to do large venues without FOH support like 40+ years ago.
Thus all the work for more efficient, portable, loud and tonally pleasing designs.

 

[iualum]

The Acoustic 2x15 Model 106 is 135 lbs. (I still have one of those beasts I bought in 1975) The 4x12 had to be heavier. I don't think that the market is there anymore for cabs with that kind of weight.
Nor do bands have to do large venues without FOH support like 40+ years ago.
Thus all the work for more efficient, portable, loud and tonally pleasing designs.

No, a robust market doesn't exist any longer for cabs of that weight. The market does still exist for powerful displacement cabs, although, as you note, due to much better FOH in many instances, today's requirement isn't as great as it was previously.

 

[JimmyM]

No, a robust market doesn't exist any longer for cabs of that weight.

It kind of does, just that people are more selective about the heavy cabs they buy.

 

[CL400Peavey]

@eyeballkid large drivers do not reproduce high frequencies well.

Eh....

Large drivers can produce high frequencies well. My cab loaded with 15PR400's has more mids and highs than any cab loaded with 10's that I have ever heard. Most 15's start to suffer off axis, but some people actually want that, and in the case of the Faital's they actually do better than most 12's or side by side 10's off axis.

 

[B-string]

I tried to let the whole 12" drivers have more distortion thing pass but some of the best studio monitors ever produced used 12" low frequency drivers. Case in point the JBL 4311s at the center of my home sound system.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I tried to let the whole 12" drivers have more distortion thing pass but some of the best studio monitors ever produced used 12" low frequency drivers. Case in point the JBL 4311s at the center of my home sound system.

Similarly, good luck getting distortion out of my 3012LF's.

 

[Arturo+music]

I built my rig with 4 x 15" Altec 421 8H bass speakers back in the mid 70s especially for my Rickenbacker 4001 Stereo Bass.
Once the stereo bass amplifier was completed, I dubbed it Tonehenge. <<<view left picture. It all works well over 40 years later.
I also have a Carlsbro Viper bass combo with 1 x 15" in recent years - old tech but certainly reliable.

 

[iualum]

It kind of does, just that people are more selective about the heavy cabs they buy.

Well, if it "kind of" does, then I think that means that a robust market doesn't exist, which is what I mentioned. Didn't argue that there aren't sales of heavy cabs any longer. Primarily those sales are to mostly younger guys with fewer expendable bucks & intact backs , & to older guys with a sense of nostalgia (who also happen to have pretty good backs ).

 

[will33]

Technology allows us to do more with less, but you can still only go so far with that. Big sound still requires big cabs, or multiple smaller ones. Just nowdays the cabs and the speakers they contain don't have to weigh quite as much.

 

[iualum]

Technology allows us to do more with less, but you can still only go so far with that. Big sound still requires big cabs, or multiple smaller ones. Just nowdays the cabs and the speakers they contain don't have to weigh quite as much.

Or sometimes they can weigh much, much, much less.

 

[eyeballkid]

now if we could only get rid of that pesky heavy wood!

 

[will33]

now if we could only get rid of that pesky heavy wood!

You've probably see these but there was a run of guys doing diy cabs here out of fiberglass/core/fiberglass sandwich type material, but apparently it's pretty nasty stuff to work with, would be expensive to do commercially, and the real weight savings only came in pretty large cabs.

There are lightweight plywoods like Okeume or whatever that is but it's expensive too.

Pretty much comes down to spending a lot more money for a little less weight.

I don't know that I'd want something too light with a couple of high-excursion woofers shaking in it. Start dancing around the stage.