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Why is the 1000 ASP ICE module not more popular?

J.Wolf

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Commercial User
Apr 29, 2003
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Asheville, NC
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Contributor- Bass Musician Magazine | Marketing Manager- Trickfish Amplification
I really cant figure this out.. This module just seems to perform SO Much better than the 250ASX2 used in 'most' high end class D amps. Maybe its just that its slightly larger and has a higher cost to the builder, but I'm kinda shocked that this unit isn't the go-to for 'no compromise' boutique class D heads. I can think of only a few products that use this 1000w module, whereas the vast majority use the 250ASX2, and rate them anywhere between 500-900w in their spec sheets.

The 1000ASP has been around for quite a while, and was used very favorably, along with some killer DSP in the older larger Berg IP cabs, but I have only seen a very small handful of bass specific products using this unit since, and its specs/performance would make it a shoe-in for lightweight, ultra high power, high performance bass heads, in my book at least.

Don't get me wrong, the 250ASX2 is a very nice, very functional power module, but performance-wise, its not even close. IME/IMO anyways.

Just wondering if anyone, especially on the manufacturing side can chime in as to why this power module is not more popular within the bass amp community. thanks
 
The ICEpower1000ASP is designed for music reproduction, which means that the output power of the amplifier
will never be continuous. If the average power exceeds 85W @ 4O (typical) for a long time at 25°C ambient
temperature, the module will reach its maximum allowable temperature and the temperature protection will be
activated. At 50°C ambient temperature more than 40W @ 4O (typical) average power will activate the
temperature protection.


The ICEpower250ASX2 module is designed for music reproduction, which means that the output power of the amplifier will never be continuous. Research has shown that the RMS level of any music signal does not normally exceed 1/8th of the peak value and the power supply is therefore designed for large short-term power handling and lower continuous power handling. If the average output power of the ICEpower250ASX2 exceeds 60W @ 4Ω (SE-mode with both channels driven) or 180W @ 8Ω (BTL-mode) for a long time at 25°C ambient temperature, the module will reach its maximum allowable temperature and the temperature protection will be activated.
 
All I know is that I use one of these amps built into an enclosure for my bass rig and it destroys the 250 unit in terms of power and tone.

I've never felt the box get warm, as opposed to my micro head with the 250 which has a fan and it often gets quite warm to the touch
 
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As someone who has designed products with both parts, there are some really significant performance advantages with the newer 250ASX2 part that makes it a no brainier (if you understand the evolution in the technology).

I can not go into the details for IP reasons, but IME the 250ASX module is a more robust performer all around and has better audio performance as well.
 
Thats really interesting. thank you for that insight.

Its not like I'm out there every night diming these things, but I will say I've had more issues with the 250 than with the 1000, so I'm a bit surprised to hear that. Although it does explain some of my headscratching about why these aren't more popular with bass amps manufacturers.
 
As someone who has designed products with both parts,

BTW, can you disclose which products you've worked on that utilize the 1000? Just curious, as I can only think of 2-3 amps that use them, and I think theyre all very small batch/boutique.
 
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A little bird told me that the 700ASC sounds better than both.....

I currently have both the 1000 and the 700 here at my house (built into par metal enclosures). To my ears, the 700 does not sound better, by any standard. So much of this depends on "what you do with it", but in my apples to apples (or as close to as I can muster) comparison, the 700 is underwhelming compared to the 1000. I hear reports from B-amp owners and the like that it sounds great when pre-amplified or built into the larger design properly.

I will say that the 700 sounds smoother to my ears than the 250ASX2, but feels somewhat softer and rounder in its attack, which could be good or bad, depending on the application.
 
As someone who has designed products with both parts, there are some really significant performance advantages with the newer 250ASX2 part that makes it a no brainier (if you understand the evolution in the technology).

I can not go into the details for IP reasons, but IME the 250ASX module is a more robust performer all around and has better audio performance as well.



My experience is the opposite. And my experience is going back and forth between only the power amps sections being changed on MANY gigs. The 1000 blows away the 250 on every level. Except size and price. I've learned that--at least to me---the most important functional part of our sound is the note envelope. How the note starts and stops and the headroom as part of that. That can best be judged in context. As a bassist our ability to drive a band, have good pitch definition, and a bass drum like "thump" at the beginning of a note and a clear stop when a note is muted is the proof of the pudding. Next is tonal balance and distortion. You can best judge the function at volume on a gig.

The 250 sounds great. I've played many amps that use it. A very nice thump at note beginning. If I wasn't comparing it to the 1000 I'd say it's at the top of the class D food chain. But even at medium volumes the 1000 has this beautiful power at note beginning---a noticeable difference. And as volume increases the 250 gets a bit buzzy and distorted. In comparison. Companies are rating the 250 at 800 to 900 watts. The 1000 is rated at 1000. Shouldn't be an appreciable difference. There is. The 1000 stays cleaner, reaches MUCH deeper and exerts more control over the speaker. And the 1000 is stable into 2.67 ohms. The 250 is not designed to do 4 ohms bridged. It can do it with proper heat management but will still be susceptible to crash and burn pounding a 4 ohm load.
Oh---and the fidelity and tonal balance---the 1000 blows the 250 away. This is after playing many gigs with various amps using the 250 and using a separate 250 as just an amp module.

A little bird told me that the 700ASC sounds better than both.....

I also have a year of experience with the 700 module. Boy did I have high hopes as this should be the same architecture as the upcoming 1200. The 700 SOUNDS magnificent. Fabulous tonal balance. It doesn't blow away the 1000 but there is a small difference. But in terms of envelope and headroom---I was disappointed. I've gone back and forth on many gigs. All the members of the bands noticed a difference. Especially drummers. All the drummers care about is note envelope. That's where the hookup occurs. It just doesn't have the visceral punch of the 1000. Or the 250.

I just had an experience with a customer that came over on Saturday. We went through many amps and cabs. Too many! We compared one of the new amps based on the 700. Sounded really nice. We compared it to the 1000 and it sounded like there was a dynamic blanket over the rig. No surprises---this has been my experience with the 700. We then hooked up my EA Doubler that I hotrodded with a 250AXL2 module. The Doubler runs very conservatively--its output to the amp section doesn't push it into 10% distortion like most competitors. So it's likely no more than 700 into 4. It sounded way punchier and powerful at different volumes. And the fidelity was closer than I had thought. The EA folks don't get everything right but they make a clean, good sounding preamp section. We both greatly preferred the Doubler. He's sending back the new amp. (and he's looking for a used Doubler to modify). Now the features on the new amp were really nice---well thought out. The eq flexibilty on the Doubler is so-so. But it functions better.I was surpried to see that on some of these 700 based amps the power ratings were based on 10% and 12% distortion. The 1000 is based on .01%. At 1% it puts out 1200 watts. If one were to push it to 10% it would likely do 1400.

I hate disagreeing with Andy---he's WAYYY smarter than me!!! But---I have the opportunity to try all of the gear that I assess in context. All different types of contexts. That's where the rubber meets the road!
 
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This is an interesting spec, but can you articulate what it says, to you?
More noise possible over time with very "heavy" compressed program material.
I don't think as bass player there is lots of benefit to the mass with 1/3 continuous ability. Except for those players who prefere overdrive pedals or very hot gained tube preamplifiers all along the line and in addition need lots of noise (average power) on stage.
 
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TC electronic was blamed a lot as they implemented a kind of average limitation into some of their MI bass series amplifiers.
It's comprehensible cause the preamplifier can emulate overdiven tube sound thus can (likely) easily exhaust a 1/3 continuous ability. Unless there is no "average" limitation the amplifier may run hot over time (of course depending on distinct gain settings and forced loudness) till overheating protection is triggered.

I think it's a good idea to take into account that modern class-D audio amplifiers are designed for reinforcement of audio program material rather than "steady" sine waves, or for use as a driving device for electrical engines.

"Overdriven" audio signals (and dirty bass guitar signals as well) are suitable to get way more average out of an power amplifier than intended thus there is potential to overheat the power device over time.
 
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