I presently use a Carvin BRX212 (800 watts @ 2 ohms) and a Carvin BRX210 cab. I don't seem to have enough volume for cutting through with 2 guitarists and loud drummer. I'm thinking of replacing my 210 cab and getting a Avatar B410 neo. Does anyone think this would be worth the change? I am trying to keep the equipment weight down. I'm sure more wattage would be a good thing, but I also need to keep cost down. I don't think Carvin specs are correct. 800 watts sounds like alot but this small rig doesn't really seem that loud and clean. Thanks for any info.
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Will a 410 help?
- Thread starter JoeG
- Start date
A 2x12 and a 2x10 should be plenty. I have a feeling you're scooping mids out of your EQ, which is the kiss of death in a 2-guitar band. Try setting the EQ totally flat. Also, try stacking the speakers vertically instead of horizontally. This will get a speaker up by your ear so you can hear it, and it will give a more accurate representation of your sound.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
You are caught in a bind of ohms, watts, and combo achitecture. I had similar problems, albeit at lower watts.
BTW, eveyone wants to keep weight and cost down, but at some point, if you want it to be loud enough, you have to have the watts and the cabs that can translate the power to sound. Buy used and get a dolly.
Unless I have misundertood, you wish to get a 4 ohm 4x10 to fit into your current (800 watts at 2 ohms) setup. Is that right?
After that, then what?
A superbly performing 4x10 used is still not super cheap.
Which single good 4 ohm 4x10 is enough when you replace the BRX212 with a head ro a rack?
I ask because if you think it all through, a 4 ohm 4x10 that won't need to be replaced will leave you a lot more options that you have now, but it presents the 2 ohm hassle all over again when paired with any other 4 ohm cabs. I know plenty of amps run a 2 ohms. I've just found that 8 ohm cabs can be shuffled into other gear configs more easily and flexibly.
IMHO you need to get out of the combo and 2 ohm configuration to broaden your choices.
The questions only you can answer are:
What do I want my rig to be?
What can I live with now while I save funds and look/learn.
What is enough? 'tis a tough question that probably can rarely really be answered, but a little overkill is way better that a little underkill.
BTW, JimmyM did offer good advice about EQ, flat or boost mids will get you more level. Also consider a compressor, it can help you max your level. However, in a volume race with bass verses 2 guitars and drums, you always lose.
Get the other musicians to downsize. Yeah....right!
Be sure you are wearing ear protection.
BTW, eveyone wants to keep weight and cost down, but at some point, if you want it to be loud enough, you have to have the watts and the cabs that can translate the power to sound. Buy used and get a dolly.
Unless I have misundertood, you wish to get a 4 ohm 4x10 to fit into your current (800 watts at 2 ohms) setup. Is that right?
After that, then what?
A superbly performing 4x10 used is still not super cheap.
Which single good 4 ohm 4x10 is enough when you replace the BRX212 with a head ro a rack?
I ask because if you think it all through, a 4 ohm 4x10 that won't need to be replaced will leave you a lot more options that you have now, but it presents the 2 ohm hassle all over again when paired with any other 4 ohm cabs. I know plenty of amps run a 2 ohms. I've just found that 8 ohm cabs can be shuffled into other gear configs more easily and flexibly.
IMHO you need to get out of the combo and 2 ohm configuration to broaden your choices.
The questions only you can answer are:
What do I want my rig to be?
What can I live with now while I save funds and look/learn.
What is enough? 'tis a tough question that probably can rarely really be answered, but a little overkill is way better that a little underkill.
BTW, JimmyM did offer good advice about EQ, flat or boost mids will get you more level. Also consider a compressor, it can help you max your level. However, in a volume race with bass verses 2 guitars and drums, you always lose.
Get the other musicians to downsize. Yeah....right!
Be sure you are wearing ear protection.
Sorry, but I don't see how it will help. He's running 400w with 2-12"s and 2-10"s as it is. I''m running a 12" and a 15" at 500w, not even turning up to halfway, and blowing my band out at that volume, and they're pretty loud. Not metal loud, but loud. It's all in the EQ and getting speakers up to where you can hear them.
Thanks for the info. JimmyM, I set at flat with my sub bass and bass knobs set at 1:00. It's a good sound up to about volume 4. If I go to 5 it starts to get alittle dirty. If I use my drive knob for more power, it gets even dirtier. This is a loud band but I still like a nice clean Fender sound. I play fretless mostly while favoring the bridge pickup. In a jazz gig this mini rig is fine. After reading about stacking vertically the other day, I'll be trying this at my next gig in two weeks.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,614
- 76
- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
Hi Jimmy,
I think the BRX212 is rated as making 800 watts @ 2 ohms with a 4 ohm extension cab. Also, I don't know the details of the above ratings, perhaps the OP can add info here.
Since the power rating was ~550 @ 4 ohms (assuming all this is RMS), I'd guess this baby makes about ~300 watts @ 8 ohms.
At times, I have found that 350 watts driving a 4x10 and a 1x15 (all of those numbers @ 8 ohms) was just barely enough, and that situation was a big horn band (3 or 4 horns, no keys, 1 guitar, bass, drums, 3 or 4 vocalists). Basically Soul and Old School R&B in large noisey Bars. Our PA carried only voices and horns, and no room for monitors, most of the time.
Obviously, the OP is the only one who can sort this out, but I do think the combo architecture has got him locked in. All IMHO.
You may be right, Jim. Hard to tell without being there, but you may be right, especially if it loses wattage when you hook up extension speakers instead of gaining. I always assume combos add more wattage when you hook extensions up, but I know of a couple that go in reverse.
JimmyM. My BRX212 combo gets warmer and louder when I hook up my 210. It actually needs an extension cab. It's alittle thin on it's own. On a different note JimmyM, I read your profile. I noticed you play with Bowzer (Sha-na-na fame?). We then might have shared the same stage on 6-21-98 at Six Flaggs park in New Jersey. I'm a fill-in bassist with Johnny Maestro & the Brooklyn Bridge. Bowzer was running a Rock & Roll show on that date with many different acts.
You played a Precision, right? I know the Bridge's usual bassist plays a Fodera Monarch and I remember the bassist had a Precision at that gig. I actually went out front to listen because you had a Precision. Great job and a great band! Johnny sings his ass off, huh?
Yep, that was me. The precision was a fretless with a bridge pickup. I love bridge pups (thanks Jaco). I actually like Johnnys' voice better now then his earlier Crests and Bridge days. It's fuller. Man can he sing. I just did a Rock show at Queens College (NY) with him two weeks ago. For the 20 years I've been with him we always have this on going joke. He says I'm playing too many notes and I ask which notes shouldn't I play.
