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Wolf tone??? Room mode??? Electric bass

#61
Hi HaphAsSard,
Apologies, my tech knowledge is not great so I will try and answer as best as I can.
Both cabs are hooked up to the amp, from the amp (so not daisy chained).
I’m not sure what you mean by the term port?
What I can tell you is that my previous combo MarkBass was a 15” the noise still occurred with this. It was paired with the PJB c4 however it did still produce the noise when not connected to the C4 I have also just used the Genzler with the C4 and the result was equally terrible. (When this occurred I disconnected the c4 and hooked my Genzler to the PA which oddly did not eliminate the noise)
I don’t mind replacing equipment however I feel like, at this point, I have already replaced everything.
Previously I thought maybe the environment I rehearsed I had possibly damaged my amp, (we play in a dusty wood shop) however I highly doubt that this exact problem would occur through damage (as you might be able to tell, I’m am clutching at straws).
If it is a combination of interaction between cabs and/or room modes how do I solve this problem.
Thanks for you continued support.
 
#62
Bass Behaviour said:
Hi HaphAsSard,
Apologies, my tech knowledge is not great so I will try and answer as best as I can.
Both cabs are hooked up to the amp, from the amp (so not daisy chained).
I’m not sure what you mean by the term port?
What I can tell you is that my previous combo MarkBass was a 15” the noise still occurred with this. It was paired with the PJB c4 however it did still produce the noise when not connected to the C4 I have also just used the Genzler with the C4 and the result was equally terrible. (When this occurred I disconnected the c4 and hooked my Genzler to the PA which oddly did not eliminate the noise)
I don’t mind replacing equipment however I feel like, at this point, I have already replaced everything.
Previously I thought maybe the environment I rehearsed I had possibly damaged my amp, (we play in a dusty wood shop) however I highly doubt that this exact problem would occur through damage (as you might be able to tell, I’m am clutching at straws).
If it is a combination of interaction between cabs and/or room modes how do I solve this problem.
Thanks for you continued support.
Click to expand...
A port or vent is the opening you find in cabinets that are not sealed (these two are the most common types of bass cabinets: more exist, like folded horns or open back like many guitar cabs are); one or more holes (actually ducts) that tune the mass of air to a specific frequency, at and around which said mass of air resonates, emits sound through the port adding low-end extension to the cabinet response, and at the same time protects the driver from excessive movement. Lots of benefits but also some complications, such as the one I described above regarding close mic placement.
If, as was suggested, the cause of your problem is really the fact that you happen to practice and rehearse in difficult rooms which give the same wolf tone result albeit at different freqs, I'd say you can either experiment with bass traps to fix each room, or get a fully parametric EQ (or a preamp with a notch filter) to pinpoint and reduce the appropriate offending frequency for every room in which the problem appears.
 
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#64
After listening to your video here's what I'd do:
  1. Disassemble the cabinets enough to determine how much sawdust has accumulated inside the cabinet. Gently vacuum out all that you find and consider a better location to store your equipment. At minimum get good covers to keep as much sawdust out as possible.
  2. While still open, check for loose bracing or anything else that may be vibrating.
  3. Use only the head and PJB C4 outdoors and determine if the problem exists.
  4. Use only the head and the BF 15" outdoors and determine if the problem exists.
  5. Use the head and both cabinets outdoors and determine if the problem exists. Move the PJB C4 to different locations (not just on top of the BF 15") and note variations.
 
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#65
David Jayne said:
"It seems to me the sound is emanating from a speaker...." Really? You got that from the video? : D
Click to expand...
David Jayne said:
"It seems to me the sound is emanating from a speaker...." Really? You got that from the video? : D
Click to expand...
Yes I did !! It sounds just like an underdamped speaker, sorry you may not agree.
 
#68
I have just finished trying to recreate this noise at home. I tried it both cabs separately, together, high gain, low gain, volume high, bass, mid and treble altered, also flat and different bass guitars. I even left the amp running before starting. But try as I may, I couldn’t get the noise to produce its self.
This is both encouraging and a shame (not necessarily in that order).
For some context, my previous amp had this same problem and I was able to recreate it in my home (much to the annoyance of my neighbours). Unfortunately I have lost the footage of this. I am satisfied in thinking that this noise is being created by something interacting with one or all of my equipment. Whether that be the room drums guitar or mics.
With this in mind I am seriously considering the previous advice given of purchasing a parametric eq in order to try and eliminate whatever frequency is interacting and causing my own personal hell.
I do however have a few questions, firstly, I have a Sans amp para driver pre amp which has previously not solved this issue, as I understand this has a ‘semi parametric’ eq so would in theory do the job.
Secondly, if this a possible solution, which parametric eq is most likely to help? I don’t want to buy a cheap to mid range one which will do little to no good but also don’t want to break the bank in getting something when a cheaper one will do just as well.
Thank you as ever to everyone. I really appreciate the advice.
 
#69
Bass Behaviour said:
purchasing a parametric eq in order to try and eliminate whatever frequency is interacting and causing my own personal hell.
I do however have a few questions, firstly, I have a Sans amp para driver pre amp which has previously not solved this issue, as I understand this has a ‘semi parametric’ eq so would in theory do the job.
Secondly, if this a possible solution, which parametric eq is most likely to help? I don’t want to buy a cheap to mid range one which will do little to no good but also don’t want to break the bank in getting something when a cheaper one will do just as well.
Click to expand...
The Tech 21 SansAmp Paradriver DI (if that's the one you have) has a semi-parametric mid band EQ: the amount of boost or cut to the mids can be adjusted and also the centre frequency to which said boost or cut is applied, but not the Q (ratio of center freq to bandwidth, so the higher it is, the narrower the affected region), which is fixed. You'd need to have a (hopefully variable) Q control, and also the frequency range to extend below 160 Hz.

I don't own one so I can't test it for you, but you might roll your dice on an Artec SE-PEQ: it may be fiddly to catch the frequency (single-band=one level knob, 10 - 20000 Hz, no freq marks around the knob only "1"-"10"), and its highest Q (narrowest width) control setting may still affect the adjacent notes if the situation requires an aggressive cut, but then again it might do the trick fine for a reasonable price. Do a search about it in the TB effect section (and on parametric EQ pedals in general, so as to learn of possible alternatives to this one, while you're at it), but also one on notch filters over on the double bass side.
 
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#70
HaphAsSard said:
The Tech 21 SansAmp Paradriver DI (if that's the one you have) has a semi-parametric mid band EQ: the amount of boost or cut to the mids can be adjusted and also the centre frequency to which said boost or cut is applied, but not the Q (ratio of center freq to bandwidth, so the higher it is, the narrower the affected region), which is fixed. You'd need to have a (hopefully variable) Q control, and also the frequency range to extend below 160 Hz.

I don't own one so I can't test it for you, but you might roll your dice on an Artec SE-PEQ: it may be fiddly to catch the frequency (single-band=one level knob, 10 - 20000 Hz, no freq marks around the knob only "1"-"10"), and its highest Q (narrowest width) control setting may still affect the adjacent notes if the situation requires an aggressive cut, but then again it might do the trick fine for a reasonable price. Do a search about it in the TB effect section (and on parametric EQ pedals in general, so as to learn of possible alternatives to this one, while you're at it), but also one on notch filters over on the double bass side.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice, looks like I will have to figure out how it works. I’ll let you know. :)
 
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#71
I know this is an old thread but listening to the video sounds like a room mode to me. When you excite a room mode you have a longer reverb time as a result. Hence why the note continues on. It is the note just bouncing off the walls. It may sound like it is coming from the cab but is not. I would bet if you got the dimensions of the room you are in, you would be able to work out that there is a mode right around that 41/82hz of your low E. When I moved into my last house and played my bass in a room that was to be my music room before I deadened the heck out of it and played a B flat it boomed and rang on for a few seconds. Double brick walls and the room was nearly a cube in dimensions meant that the mode was very strong. My belated 2c.
 
#72
It happened at gigs too he said. Perhaps a visit to an audiologist who could run those tones and see if he’s having sympathetic vibrations in his head. Perhaps also a really open dental surgeon who may consult on hearing issues. Possibly a good physical therapist who has worked with jaw issues.

There’s the one effective TB cure. Fire the drummer.:)
 
#73
Sounds like room nodes to me as well.

I've had similar issues with the low G on the E string in multiple venues. I call it "one loud note syndrome".

Knowing that most weekend warrior rigs and PA systems don't produce much of the lowest notes fundamentals at any great volume, the problem is more likely to be the second or third-order harmonics.

The second-order harmonic of the OPs 'A' note has a frequency of 110Hz, with a wavelength of around 3 metres - or just over 9 and a half feet.

I'm not a betting man, but I bet this is a fairly common ceiling height in some of the venues they are playing in. Just like my low G gets excited with similar average-height ceilings.

An EQ with a notch filter would solve the problem. An RTA app on a phone is also a useful tool for identifying problematic frequencies to notch out.

I also wonder how the OP is running their amp's eq and what sort of tone they are aiming for. Juicing up the 100hz area can sound great at bedroom levels but could be causing havoc at gig volume.
 

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