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Would my amp be loud enough for a gig?
- Thread starter Fleur-de-Bass
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What you want is like 3 or 4 of these. Should get you through a bar gig, but just barely.
Wait, that’s what I want...
What you want is like 3 or 4 of these. Should get you through a bar gig, but just barely.
Wait, that’s what I want...
I have gigged with a 25 watt amp, but the drummer played with brushes and the guitarist pushed a 5 watt amp to play 50s rock. It worked great, but it was a unique sound, everyone was on board to play to right volume and set up, so it depends on what your gig is and what kind of music. And what kind of musicians you are playing with!
You mean, @JimmyM?The bassline wattage is 200. This has been scientifically proven and verified by our creator himself. You have a problem with that, then take it up with him.
Yeah, this actually true. Sensitivity (SPL's) will tell you how much power will make it loud Only problem is that you need to know what the speakers or speaker cab will put out. I recently bought a class D amp of 225-watts to drive a single 4 ohm 112 cab for a small venue we play every Friday. It will work just fine for a small to small-medium venue but it's rather limited.
Back in the early 70's though, I had a Standel amp with a 2x15 powered speaker cab with 4 round ports stacked vertically. The speakers were perfectly matched to the power and that thing was unbelievably loud. Power was either 200 -watts (If I recall correctly). I never could turn it up past 9 o'clock indoors. I could turn it up to 5 for outdoor festivals and still have plenty of power left. It was louder than an acoustic 360/361 or an Ampeg SVT. That acoustic 360/361 became the "powerhouse staple" back in the early 70's and it also used powered speakers. It was 200-watts driving an 18' bass reflex speaker.
The big deal on those powered cab was that the speakers were very sensitive (high initial SPL) and perfectly matched to the power output of the amps that were driving them. Now, power handling and sensitivity don't always go hand in hand. In fact it's a real trick to get both. Very often, with a speaker designed for high power handling, sensitivity suffers - a lot. That means that although a particular cab may handle more watts, it may very well require more watts to make it loud. So "loud enough" is a combination of both watts and SPL (Sound Pressure Level).
So pay attention to SPL's when looking at cabs. Unfortunately almost all manufacturers only rate SPL at one particular frequency. As best as I can find 1Khz is commonly used. Now we play a lot of frquencies, and that's just looking at one, so it's not a good "real world" test. But at least it's something. About the only company I know of that actually posts "average SPL" for SPL ratings using a very wide range of frequencies is MESA and since @agedhorse designs amps and cabs for them, I think he might be the main reason they do that.
So the OP's mission, should he decide to accept it, is to figure out what cabs should be in the running for use with his amp, and then whenever possible, go audition those cabs to hear how they really sound with his amp.
Not sure if this should be in live sound or here but I was wondering if my rumble 25 would be loud enough to cut through a mix. I don't have any gigs atm (haven't had one yet or even played with a real drummer) but just out of curiosity. Also have to note that I haven't had the volume up past half yet because I don't want to rattle the house and everyone in it
Unfortunately that's nowhere near enough power to depend upon for playing gigs with a live drummer. You can get some 200-watt combos that will let you gig small and mediums sized venues with a group, but if you want something that will also let you gig large venues, you should probably be looking at around 500-watts rms (not peak power, instantaneous power, program power or other marketing crap). That will allow you enough watts to power a number of different sensitivity cabs to gig volumes at all three types of venues.
So, if you want to limit your gigs for a few years, you can buy a combo of 200+ watts. If you want to be able to upgrade cabs later though, get a 500+ watt head. Personally I use an 800-watt head and a few different cab combinations depending upon the size of the venue.
I am SOOOOOOOO glad I don't play in the bands you folks play in...I'd be deaf!
The reasonably priced Fender Rumble 200w 2x10 combo and later with a 2x10 extension cab along with a HPF(high pass filter that cuts the mud) will allow you play pretty much every local covered venue.
Hey @Stumbo, I think you might have had a good suggestion there, but I couldn't quite make it out. Let me turn my hearing aids up a bit...
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I hate to admit, but @JimmyM has a point there about loud bands. My biggest mistake was when I was very young (21-24). For three years I played 5 nights a week, 50-weeks a year and there really was no such thing as FOH reinforcement. How you sounded out front entirely depended upon your amps on stage plus a vocals PA.
So it could get really loud on some stages. I played a very loud amp at comparatively low levels for the amp and the result is that my hearing drops off drastically a 3KHz - "high frequencies??? what are those???. That was 40-years ago and it actually got worse when I hit around 60. So now I wear hearing aids full-time EXCEPT when I'm playing music - then I turn them off.
This all came about because the keys and guitarist in the group bought much louder amps and then buried my 50-watt, all-tube, 1966 Fender Bassman amp. So I had to go out and buy an amp that would bury them many times over if need be. I swore I would never be under-gunned again, and I'm not. Of course I can't hear much above 3KHz without really turning everything up now either.
No, well, yes if you were playing at a very small low key coffee shop with no drummer. I have a Rumble 25 just for practice, actually not a bad sound for 25 watts
You are incorrect there. SPL is a measure of the output, not sensitivity. Sensitivity is often quoted as SPL (in dB) at 1W and 1m, but that's just an SPL under a specific measure as a guide to sensitivity. What you need to know is the SPL that the amp can output given the speaker cabinets, which is what I was indicating the requirement for, and I wasn't expecting that was going to be misunderstood. An important factor in looking at actual maximum SPL is that sensitivity is all very well but the speakers and cabinet as a system may not be able to keep up.
Again, it's the SPL. 500 watts might mean 115dB or 130dB depending on the speaker cabinets and their efficiency. What is sufficient? You mention an 800W cab and some speakers, but how many dB does that translate into?
My first amp was only 60W but had a very efficient speaker (although limited frequency response) giving it 116dB at 1m. I upgraded to one rated at 117dB maximum into one speaker and while it had better frequency response I had to get an extension cab to bring it up to 121dB. My current rig will give me 122dB, which is significantly louder, with the main advantage being it is lighter. The loudest I had was only 1 more dB than now, but it was much heavier - more speakers but less sensitive. My PA tops out at 121dB. 800W into a couple of less efficient cabs might only be 126dB or 'a bit louder'. I can't see needing more than 122dB as I'd want to have FOH support ahead of a louder amp.
You know chaps I wonder how we all got on when I was young and 300-500w amps were too exotic and unaffordable over here...
In any case watts are not a measure of volume, but looking at the spec for the rumble it only has an 8in speaker, so doesn't move a lot of air. 25w into an efficient 15 or 2x10 would be rather different.
To my mind there's an obvious measure- if you can all hear yourselves OK practicing you'll be OK for a small gig especially if there's FOH - at least provided everyone is sensible enough to play at the same volume in rehearsal.
So to my mind don't sweat it. You'll know if you need more rig long before you get on a stage.
In any case watts are not a measure of volume, but looking at the spec for the rumble it only has an 8in speaker, so doesn't move a lot of air. 25w into an efficient 15 or 2x10 would be rather different.
To my mind there's an obvious measure- if you can all hear yourselves OK practicing you'll be OK for a small gig especially if there's FOH - at least provided everyone is sensible enough to play at the same volume in rehearsal.
So to my mind don't sweat it. You'll know if you need more rig long before you get on a stage.
Thanks again folks, haha I know what cabs are. My old man has a Hughes and Kettner tube(can't remember wattage) and a marshall cab and hearing that thing is ape****.. I'll be looking around for a 500w tube head and then a cab to match when I get to that point. So by "mud" do you mean that weird fart sound when it's too loud and doesn't voice the note properly? Usually happens when I run my fx pedal, especially if I construct an effect with too much going on. Sounds like an overload of input or something. Also now I have to post a thread about Hz... Haha I kid I kid I'll go do my research. I can still hear dog whistles so my hearing is almost annoyingly good(electricity in the house down the block I hear, it kinda sucks). 
Use 3x your loudest guitarists amps wattage as your "guideline" number...general rule of thumb is 300w minimum for a gigging bassist...MY general rule is figure out exactly what you need then buy the next biggest size...you can always turn the volume down, but if you dont have enough juice, there is nothing you can do.
Rock on.
Rock on.
