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Double Bass Xlson, Remic Red, and Remic Green

MAn The PR 40 mini was a sick mic. I couldnt believe he didnt want to make those I think he would have sold many to bass players.

I talked to Bob Heil and he just didn’t think the potential sales would justify putting the PR 40 Mini into production, which is unfortunate based on your
experience with the microphone. He offered to let me try it, but I declined as he passed on the production. Peter Axelsson had to part with a vintage Double Bass to aquire the funds necessary to put the Xlson on the market.
 
Is this "low end bump" due to the mic being directional (proximity effect), or something else?

Povl,
Piro Patten (Flatback) knows how to
reduce the effect. As I recall the Remic Green is designed differenty than Remic Red. If I switch the HPF on the Felix over to Notch and apply it to the low end the bump smothes out somewhat. My feeling is that if you were able to use a variable Notch and HPF together it would be possible to fine tune the frequency response of the Remic Green to eliminate the issue, which doesn’t seem to be an issue into the mains.

Ric
 
THere are now many other options then the Remic Green that (at least on my basses) out weigh it's headache. When I was trying to make it work for me and encouraged about the possibilities for it's success part of my optimism was that I thought the maker was interested in improvements and feedback. While Thor is a great guy and the Red is a wonderful mic, I dont think the Green has the plug and play necessary for everyday use by players looking for consistency in a gig mic. (Read the ToneDexter is way more user friendly and usable in a real world situation)....basses are all different though and for some it works well.
While the Tone Dexter is not exactly a mic sound (it always sounds like a pickup mic blend) it works as advertised and is capable of many usable distinctly different tonalities in the mic ish sounding realm. The big plus is that the makers are very responsive and willing to adjust the bass version to get closer to what we want from it.
 
.... plug and play.... exactly a mic sound

Flatback, those two things in your post grabbed my attention.

When I was demoing the Xlson Chuck Israels Mic those are the two things that, for me, really stood out.

The only adjustment I made was to cut the treble knob on my amp (7.5 kHz) to prevent feedback. When I did that there was NO feedback.

The other thing was the sound "exactly a mic sound" which I guess is another way of saying "exactly the sound of my bass"

As I had said in my intial review, playing through this mic somehow made the bass 'Feel Right'. I think it is the way it captures the note envelope in a way no pickup can. I felt a 'bounce' in my playing that really put a smile on my face.

Here is a video clip I made with the Xlson mic:

If you don't wish to wade through the whole thing, the Xlson through the DI starts at 2:00 and the straight acoustic starts at 4:30.
 
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THere are now many other options then the Remic Green that (at least on my basses) out weigh it's headache. When I was trying to make it work for me and encouraged about the possibilities for it's success part of my optimism was that I thought the maker was interested in improvements and feedback. While Thor is a great guy and the Red is a wonderful mic, I dont think the Green has the plug and play necessary for everyday use by players looking for consistency in a gig mic. (Read the ToneDexter is way more user friendly and usable in a real world situation)....basses are all different though and for some it works well.
While the Tone Dexter is not exactly a mic sound (it always sounds like a pickup mic blend) it works as advertised and is capable of many usable distinctly different tonalities in the mic ish sounding realm. The big plus is that the makers are very responsive and willing to adjust the bass version to get closer to what we want from it.

Just looking at it from the microphone only option, we have the DPA 4099 Dvote, Ischell, Remic Green, Remic Red, and Xlson, so I can see your point, to some extent. The Ischell sounds remarkable, considering it's size, price point, feedback control and timbre. The Remic Red has a beautiful sound, but for my money, is really a studio or drumerless microphone. Now personally, I've had great sucess with both the Remic Green FOH and the DPA 4099. So for concert's they are ideal for me. I can just
send their signal forward and let the house EQ the sound. In those instances I'm sending the Ehrlund EAP back to my amp, either with or without a Remic or DPA mixed. Ideally, we'd like to have a one size all for everything and the more I use the Xlson I find it has the ability to do this very well. While for others digital processing judiciously applied may be the answer, I'd rather explore a microphone that works in all situations.
Just my take however, to each their own. :) :D :laugh:
 
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Hi Guys. So I think we are speaking to two different things here. FOH is a whole other matter. IF we are talking FOH then there are literally dozens of choices and I dont even think about it, it isn't really my job. I send a line from a mic I have on the bass or I don't and let them mic it as they please. I am talking here on TB almost always about personal amplification: what you hear coming thru what ever you schlepted to the gig.

I am sure the new Xlson is a fine mic, it may even be the best personal mic available, I don't know. If Peter would like to send me one, Im sure based on what you cats have said (I no longer can make any sense of recordings of pickups or mics ...too many variables) I could put it to use, but my point is that after spending thousands of dollars already on the latest this or that, and really going thru a lot of different possibilities for live sound, I dont think that the answer for personal monitoring and stage amplification is jumping on the NEXT greatest mic. I think as I have said that the equipment that I end up taking to gig after gig is first a great speaker, and a great preamp, and then a great pickup, and then now the ToneDexter.
But If you gave me an Underwood with the Felix and MAS I would be happier then starting from the other side of the equation. I am not looking for some perfect representation of my bass idealized louder in a group, I am hoping to be inspired to play well and be heard clearly but not obtrusively night after night in the various mostly imperfect settings that I am required to play in.
When I take a solo with the TD and I can hear that it sounds more like a bass then a piezo and cuts thru and has some air and does not feedback and the sound is easy to find, I am stoked.
But when I hear as much bleed as I do coming thru the recording of the Xlson I cannot imagine wanting to spend $1300 to have that to contend with coming out of my amplifier. Especially when the Remic is similar and I already own it and dont use it that often for the same reason.
The TD gets pretty damn close with no feedback no bleed and an array of clever useful options for a reasonable price. My only point about the Xlson is that it seems to have arrived some years late. Even 3 years ago I would have been GASing for it but it has some far more economical competition that has solved more of the problems (for my application)
 
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Hi Guys. So I think we are speaking to two different things here. FOH is a whole other matter. IF we are talking FOH then there are literally dozens of choices and I dont even think about it, it isn't really my job. I send a line from a mic I have on the bass or I don't and let them mic it as they please. I am talking here on TB almost always about personal amplification: what you hear coming thru what ever you schlepted to the gig.

Flatback,
While I do have ocassion to play in auditoriums, nearly half my gigs are performed in peoples backyards, patios, country clubs ect. Honestly, I don't even take my Mirecourt DB on those gigs
If they want DB I take my Clevenger. When I do play the Mirecourt, I'm lookin' for as great a sound as possible to send to the house, mostly because I have heard countless concerts with
master jazz bassists that run a tap of the amp directly from a Realist or Full Circle and sound really afwul. So once I heard Larry Grenadier playind into a Schoeps CMC6 MK41 I was hooked.
I've had to many terrible experiences being miked by sound technicians, who have no idea what their doing, to let them decide what mike to put on my instrument. :cool:



I am sure the new Xlson is a fine mic, it may even be the best personal mic available, I don't know. If Peter would like to send me one, Im sure based on what you cats have said (I no longer can make any sense of recordings of pickups or mics ...too many variables) I could put it to use, but my point is that after spending thousands of dollars already on the latest this or that, and really going thru a lot of different possibilities for live sound, I dont think that the answer for personal monitoring and stage amplification is jumping on the NEXT greatest mic.......

It's likely you would be able to try one out. I've had really good luck listening to you and others describe their experiences with new gear. You might be really surprized by the Xlson :laugh:


But If you gave me an Underwood with the Felix and MAS I would be happier then starting from the other side of the equation. I am not looking for some perfect representation of my bass idealized louder in a group, I am hoping to be inspired to play well and be heard clearly but not obtrusively night after night in the various mostly imperfect settings that I am required to play in.

Agreed, the musics the goal not the gear, what I'd really like to do is show up for the gig with a microphone and my bass. ;)

When I take a solo with the TD and I can hear that it sounds more like a bass then a piezo and cuts thru and has some air and does not feedback and the sound is easy to find, I am stoked.
But when I hear as much bleed as I do coming thru the recording of the Xlson I cannot imagine wanting to spend $1300 to have that to contend with coming out of my amplifier. Especially when the Remic is similar and I already own it and dont use it that often for the same reason.
The TD gets pretty damn close with no feedback no bleed and an array of clever useful options for a reasonable price. My only point about the Xlson is that it seems to have arrived some years late. Even 3 years ago I would have been GASing for it but it has some far more economical competition that has solved more of the problems (for my application)

If we think back I remember when both of us were bemoaning the cost of the Grace Felix, and couldn't imagine spending that amount of money on a preamp, much less a MAS powered speaker
but her we are. :D It's hard to explain but the although you can hear the bleed into the mic through the Felix DI, you just dont notice it coming through the MAS 1/8. The Xlson is expensive, so it's
likely more of a cost decision than a sonic one. Remic's used to cost what was it? $1,200.00 but they certianly came down in price. All a mater of perspective I guess.

Since we obviously have crossed over the Xlson and ToneDexter threads, we are definitley comparing apples to oranges.
 
Yes sir, In point of fact I really want one and I don't think I can go on playing very much longer without one. :)
I have my very own H clamp to put it on. If Peter would sell me one for $200. I would be happy to get right to trying to make it work thru my amp.:)
I am sure it is dope. I admire Chuck and his playing and I love new products and inventors who work on my behalf, no joking and for real. I'll et thru the Felix and MAS it sounds crazy good. I have been in denial.
Truth is you cats got to it before me and I am jealous.
 
But, I suppose bleed is also an issue with signal sent to FOH?

Povl,
As I mentioned before there is definitely some bleed, unlike the Yamahiko or Ehrlund. That would be true of any microphone including the Schoeps CMC6 MK41. It just dosen't seem to be much of an issue as your performinglive. The Xlson emphasizes the bass in the near feild and separates it from the other instruments.
 
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Yes sir, In point of fact I really want one and I don't think I can go on playing very much longer without one. :) I have my very own H clamp to put it on. If Peter would sell me one for $200. I would be happy to get right to trying to make it work thru my amp.:) I am sure it is dope. I admire Chuck and his playing and I love new products and inventors who work on my behalf, no joking and for real. I'll bet thru the Felix and MAS it sounds crazy good. I have been in denial.Truth is you cats got to it before me and I am jealous.

Piro,
I’m just one stop on the Xlson tour. :) If they were selling for that price I’d take two. :D Rick contacted Xlson and did all the leg work.