Yamaha BB3000 vs. BB414 - A fair fight?

[SpankBazz]

Hear me out!
And yes, I posted this question in the Yamaha Club post.

Here's the backstory.

Recently, I set about putting myself in the market for one of my favorite basses: The Yamaha BB3000.
I became familiar with it because I'm a huge fan of Jonathan Maron, particularly his work as a member of Groove Collective.



As I started researching Yamaha basses, I stumbled upon the infamous video of Casiopeia's 1982 performance of Domino Line.
Their bassist, Tetsuo Sakurai, takes a legendary solo.
Haven't seen it? WHAT?!?
Here ya go! (timestamped)



Sakurai is playing his custom tweaked BB2000.
At that point, I changed course and began seeking a BB2000.

It just so happened that while I was looking, original Yamaha BB models from the late 70's and early 80's were increasing in value.
In other words, the prices were going up before my eyes.
You used to be able to get a used Yamaha BB for not much more than a song. Not anymore.
Not only were the prices going up but most of the ones I found were in Japan or China. $o you know what that mean$.
I had a limit on how much I was willing to pay and that limited my choices.

For a second, it looked like scoring a BB2000 was not in the cards for me.
I kept researching and stumbled upon some demo videos for the BB414 and BB424.



They sounded great but I wondered if I was just making them sound better in my mind since I wasn't getting what I wanted.
I looked for fun and giggles, and I found a great deal on a BB414. Sold.
It arrived and I was very pleased with it.
I confess that I tried to buy a BB424 too, which is true gluttony, but the deal fell through because the guy was playing games.

Eventually, things worked out and I got the BB2000. The BB3000 is still on my list.
But then I started thinking.

How much difference IN SOUND, no other category, is there between a BB3000 and the 2000-ish era BB models? (BB414 through BB2024)
I have A/B'd to death on YouTube and maybe it's just my imagination, but I'm not hearing much difference.

If I do go out and cop a BB3000, will I just be doing it just to say I have one when the sound is already here with me?

 

[ToddB1963]

If I had to choose between my BB2000 and BB3000, the BB2000 would win hands down. It just sounds significantly better IMO. The reverse P pickup produces a throatier bark compared to a standard P on the BB3000, and the tone is smoother and more even across all strings. When both pickups are engaged, the tone is sweeter and more harmonically rich, especially in the higher register.

In contrast, the BB3000, despite some playability advantages (svelte body, jazz bass-width nut, lighter weight) falls short in terms of tone. Alas, it suffers from the typical PJ quirk – a nasal tone when both pickups are used. Interestingly, my old Ibanez Roadster PJ surpasses it in terms of sound quality.

EDIT: To my ear the BB424 / BB1024 don't sound much different to the BB3000, so If you already have one of the former, I wouldn't spring for a BB3000 expecting something different.

 

[ToddB1963]

Do you hear a marked difference between the BB3000 and a BB424 or a BB1024?

Not really. They're all standard PJs, so notwithstanding differences in strings, they all have a similar tone profile.

 

[SpankBazz]

Not really. They're all standard PJs, so notwithstanding differences in strings, they all have a similar tone profile.

Okay, it's not just me.

 

[SpankBazz]

If I had to choose between my BB2000 and BB3000, the BB2000 would win hands down. It just sounds significantly better IMO. The reverse P pickup produces a throatier bark compared to a standard P on the BB3000, and the tone is smoother and more even across all strings. When both pickups are engaged, the tone is sweeter and more harmonically rich, especially in the higher register.

I always wondered why Yamaha stopped doing the reverse P pickup, as it yielded a positive result.

 

[ModuMan]

Ha, I did the same thing. Realized that killer sound in Casiopea was coming from a BB2000 with a reverse P and... I can't find one at a reasonable price all of a sudden!

Personally, I'm still looking for a 2000 but I guess I should expand my horizons.

 

[ToddB1963]

I always wondered why Yamaha stopped doing the reverse P pickup, as it yielded a positive result.

Same. The sound is better IMO especially when running both pickups together. Check out Goerge Hawkins' solo through the phaser at 2:00

 

[SpankBazz]

Same. The sound is better IMO especially when running both pickups together. Check out Goerge Hawkins' solo through the phaser at 2:00

I thought I was the only one who liked this song. LOL.
Loggins' band was killer during that era.
Sucks that both the cameraman and the stage crew totally ignored George while he was out there rippin'.

 

[ToddB1963]

I thought I was the only one who liked this song. LOL.
Loggins' band was killer during that era.
Sucks that both the cameraman and the stage crew totally ignored George while he was out there rippin'.

George was a great bass player, and his tone was impeccable. Yeah, great band and... typical cameramen, LOL.

 

[ModuMan]

Dang, that's awesome

 

[Pier_]

Not really. They're all standard PJs, so notwithstanding differences in strings, they all have a similar tone profile.

I'm not of that advice, as long as you listen carefully.

I've had both, a couple of BB414 and I'm a proud and happy user of a BB3000 since 2018 (a wonderful '85 in candy apple red), and the sound is very different.

first of all, the BB3000 has a lot more highs in the overall sound, where the BB414/424 and similar models lack.

also, the "scoop" in the mids is in a different spot, in particular on the split coil, and the BB3000 is more similar to a modern sounding Spector bass with the split soloed.
the split on the BB414 is "rubbery", has a lot of bass and low mid frequencies, but stops there and doesn't have many hi-mids and highs.

the BB3000 is also very different to a standard P/PJ, because of the mid-scoop and the wider spectrum on bass and high frequencies.



this is a record made a few months ago, featuring my BB3000 with the split soloed, with a pick. it doesn't sound like a Precision, nor like a BB414.

the BB3000 is also featured in most No Doubt tracks, played with an heavy plucking hand growly tone.

PS: I love the BB2000 in particular for the mostly unknown use by Andy Rourke on The Smiths records. it was his main session bass, and used on most of the tracks except for the ones tuned to F#, where he used the "abused" '64 Precision with bowed neck (he tuned 1 step up to F# and never made a setup).

 

[Afc70]

Another vote for the BB3000, Tony Kanal’s spectacular bass tone on Tragic Kingdom, back in the day, is what sparked my interest in Yamaha basses. I’m a huge fan of Tony & Yamaha in general.

Edit: Richard Page, the excellent bassist/ vocalist for Mr. Mister, got great live bass tones from the Yamaha Bb3000 & BB5000 basses.

 

[SpankBazz]

Ha, I did the same thing. Realized that killer sound in Casiopea was coming from a BB2000 with a reverse P and... I can't find one at a reasonable price all of a sudden!

Personally, I'm still looking for a 2000 but I guess I should expand my horizons.

Reverb has a couple right now that are within reach price-wise.

 

[Altitude]

Edit: Richard Page, the excellent bassist/ vocalist for Mr. Mister, got great live bass tones from the Yamaha Bb3000 & BB5000 basses.

That’s what I usually say as well in these Yamaha BB posts. Richard Page turned me on to Yamaha basses in the 80s. I bought a BB1600 to use in my college jazz program, kept it for 30 years, and should not have sold it.

Here is Richard Page and Mr. Mister in a gig they did at the Ritz in NYC just as the “Welcome To The Real World” record was beginning to blow up. You can clearly see how musically competent this band was, and Page sounds great playing his BB3000. Listen to the characteristic “ping” in the tone as he does little accent pops in the first tune.



…and here they are at the MTV Spring Break stage at Daytona Beach around 1986. Bonus points on this one for a glimpse of Martha Quinn at peak girl-next-door. Page has a BB5000 in this one.

I spoke to Pat Mastellotto, the fantastic drummer here who went on to play for King Crimson, about why he was wearing a heavy shirt buttoned all the way up during an outdoor set in Florida, considering he plays drums like Animal from the Muppets. Turns out they had a photo shoot moments before they started this set and he didn’t have time to do anything about his clothing. He says he was as hot as he looks.

 

[SpankBazz]

Another vote for the BB3000, Tony Kanal’s spectacular bass tone on Tragic Kingdom, back in the day, is what sparked my interest in Yamaha basses. I’m a huge fan of Tony & Yamaha in general.

Edit: Richard Page, the excellent bassist/ vocalist for Mr. Mister, got great live bass tones from the Yamaha Bb3000 & BB5000 basses.

I think Kanal's main axe on Tragic Kingdom was the BB1600. He got a custom BB3000 later.

Tony Kanal | Yamaha Interview - Yamaha Guitar Development

A few weeks ago our friend Tony Kanal reached out to see if we could get some of his Yamaha BB’s studio-ready to start recording with his new project, which features fellow No Doubt members Tom Dumont and Adrian Young as well as A.F.I. singer Davey Havok. One of the basses we received in our

yamahaguitardevelopment.com

 

[SpankBazz]

That’s what I usually say as well in these Yamaha BB posts. Richard Page turned me on to Yamaha basses in the 80s. I bought a BB1600 to use in my college jazz program, kept it for 30 years, and should not have sold it.

Here is Richard Page and Mr. Mister in a gig they did at the Ritz in NYC just as the “Welcome To The Real World” record was beginning to blow up. You can clearly see how musically competent this band was, and Page sounds great playing his BB3000.

I loved Mr. Mister's stuff.

Sidebar related to this.
Mr. Mister is a rebrand of Richard Page's previous band Pages.
Like Mr. Mister, Pages was based around Richard Page and his partner Steven George (keys) and augmented with hired hands.
Stylistically, Pages was a straight up AOR sound. AOR has been retroactively renamed Yacht Rock.

Page was primarily the lead singer and main songwriter along with George.
He contributed some keys but no bass. It seems he picked up bass for the Mr. Mister project.
Jerry Manfredi handled bass duties in Pages. He's playing a P and sounds great.
Pages released 3 worthwhile albums that flew under the radar between 1978-1980 before disbanding.

This song was written by Page and Kenny Loggins. Loggins and bassist George Hawkins sing background here.


Loggins released his own version the same year. Richard Page is on background with another very interesting guest.

 

[J Wilson]

Both good, but I owned quite a few 80's BB's (1200, 2000, 3000, 5000, 1600, 400) over my time, and I'd suggest there's a difference between that era BB and the later ones you've mentioned. BTW, a 3000 has a MUCH slimmer neck than a 2000, and the P pickup is reversed back to standard Fender layout which does not make a big difference at all.

Whether you would hear a difference sufficient to justify the spend only you can answer, but I would say that the 80's MIJ neckthrough instruments are still landmarks. But it's your call.

 

[Pier_]

kept it for 30 years, and should not have sold it.

I did the same error something like 3 years ago: I bought my BB3000 in 2018, if I recall correctly, from a friend of mine, for just 1000€. it has some dings and scratches, but truss rod in perfect conditions, frets at 99% and electronically functioning.

Yamaha BB3000 (1985) · Jan 15, 2021 – Feb 6, 2025 📸

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photos.app.goo.gl

then, in 2022 I was not using it much, preferring other basses and a in particular standard Fender Ps, and so I sold it.

instant regret, after a week I started missing it, and searched the web for another BB3000, but the price started to raise so much, with added duties for export (most ads were from Japan).
then, in the summer of 2023 I saw on Facebook a friend of mine, one of those that buys and sells continuously, was selling a BB3000 in candy apple red, for less than I sold it.
I looked at the pictures, and it was mine recognizable from the lack of paint in some parts of the headstock.

I immediately called him, and took it back home. I was so lucky also because the previous owner (the one who bought it from me) was an animal, and my perfect setup and cleaning was destroyed!
I found the bass with the saddles at odd heights, no intonation at all, he probably changed the strings in some stupid way that moved the saddles so much that the heights moved in random positions.
it was also so dirty, with strings near to changing colour...

right now is like on the pictures, well cured and cuddled, played a lot with love I'll never ever sell it again, also because from all this movement I made by selling ad buying, it's like if I payed it 800€, and now with 800€ you barely buy a Mexican Fender...