Yoko Ono, AAACCCKKKKK!!!!!

[LizzyD]

Cause they can actually carry pitch and rhythm while using the timbe of cookie voices.

I'd take Yoko's music over cookie monster any day, sorry. Different strokes and all that. Unless I'm really in the mood for it.

How much of her work have you heard, by the way? Do you have any understanding of what her work is about? I find it very compelling. I like to listen to weird noisy stuff too, things that most people would not find musical. Just like cookie monster vocals, it's not for everyone.

 

[lamarjones]

I'd take Yoko's music over cookie monster any day, sorry. Different strokes and all that. Unless I'm really in the mood for it.

How much of her work have you heard, by the way? Do you have any understanding of what her work is about? I find it very compelling. I like to listen to weird noisy stuff too, things that most people would not find musical. Just like cookie monster vocals, it's not for everyone.

that I can dig.

Yes, whatever I have heard, I did not find the singing to be flattering at all, so I got turned off of it very quickly. I found HER music making ability with respect to vocals busted, I amassed a 320 gig music collection recently and I saw some of her stuff and I still felt the same. tought to take it serious.

BUT, i can see how some might find some artistic merit in some of it, so if she wrote and produced all of the music, hell maybe she is a powerhouse. The music wasn't so bad, not exactly what I was going against. She produced everything on those recordings?

 

[Dragonlord]

Cause they can actually carry pitch and rhythm while using the timbe of cookie voices.

If you don't like the cookie monster voice, no worries. I thinkk Joe Cocker is about the same

But, that is just one of my gripes with Yoko, ie the basics of music, and I'd argue all day that somewhat who had a timbre that many don't like but can totally toss out lines that are melocially intereting and completely on time does outweight the beast known as Ono. But, I don't give her much credit in the pitch dept. And very little when it comes to rhythm. She has some, but seems kinda basic.

Know, if you argue that her pitch and rhythm are every bit as good as the guys I am referring to, well then I can kind of see how 'better' really becomes opinionated. But if its just for the mere fact of teh timbre of the voice, then I claim , IF we are talking about music, I am right.

No, I do like the "cookie monster voice", actually that's what our singer does. It's just that, as LizzyD said, sometimes you want stuff that is not necessarily "musical" or in tune. I was only referring to the "better" part; it's music, you like it or not, and anyway the cookie monster vox aren't the epitome of musicality either, so that should be even more understood by you. "I prefer", this I can understand, "better" not really.

 

[lamarjones]

No, I do like the "cookie monster voice", actually that's what our singer does. It's just that, as LizzyD said, sometimes you want stuff that is not necessarily "musical" or in tune. I was only referring to the "better" part; it's music, you like it or not, and anyway the cookie monster vox aren't the epitome of musicality either, so that should be even more understood by you. "I prefer", this I can understand, "better" not really.

Wait, does that mean that me saying the pitch and rhythm of some of the cookie monsters is better than Yoko is invalid? I didn't lumpp all cookie monster producers together, that was done elsewhere....I stated about SOME of them.....

whether you like either is of course opinion, having a certain range and nailing it in time is not.

 

[LizzyD]

She produced everything on those recordings?

I'm not sure, to be honest (not sure how technically you mean "produce"). Her later "pop" albums probably had someone acting as a collaborative producer in the technical sense, but my guess is she was mostly in control of things. Obviously the early albums with Lennon were collaborative where they just let loose in the studio.

One thing to keep in mind is that her background is as an avant garde artist, much of it being performance art and it was pretty far out there. So that was her initial approach to music as well, totally experimental. She was heavily involved in the art scene in NYC and hung out with people like LaMonte Young and John Cage. Lots of people think their work is crap too.

I think she would have done experimental art/music recordings no matter what, but had she not gotten involved with Lennon, the rest of the world outside the avant garde scene would never have heard them. And I doubt she would have ventured into the pop music world, because certainly no major label would have signed her.

 

[Dragonlord]

Wait, does that mean that me saying the pitch and rhythm of some of the cookie monsters is better than Yoko is invalid? I didn't lumpp all cookie monster producers together, that was done elsewhere....I stated about SOME of them.....

whether you like either is of course opinion, having a certain range and nailing it in time is not.

No, it's certainly not invalid, I was only saying that this doesn't make an artist better than someone else. I mean, I prefer Quorthon as an artist to many *good* singers, and technically he was just horrible.

 

[Vandelay]

I'm not sure, to be honest (not sure how technically you mean "produce"). Her later "pop" albums probably had someone acting as a collaborative producer in the technical sense, but my guess is she was mostly in control of things. Obviously the early albums with Lennon were collaborative where they just let loose in the studio.

One thing to keep in mind is that her background is as an avant garde artist, much of it being performance art and it was pretty far out there. So that was her initial approach to music as well, totally experimental. She was heavily involved in the art scene in NYC and hung out with people like LaMonte Young and John Cage. Lots of people think their work is crap too.

I think she would have done experimental art/music recordings no matter what, but had she not gotten involved with Lennon, the rest of the world outside the avant garde scene would never have heard them. And I doubt she would have ventured into the pop music world, because certainly no major label would have signed her.

I get that her approach is avant-garde/experimental, but it's not even "good art". She thinks she's an edgy, confrontational artist, but most of her art that I've ever seen/heard -- her music, her performance art "happenings", her films of people's bottoms and such, her museum pieces, etc. -- is shallow, pretentious B.S. She's nothing more than a dilletante.

 

[LizzyD]

I get that her approach is avant-garde/experimental, but it's not even "good art". She thinks she's an edgy, confrontational artist, but most of her art that I've ever seen/heard -- her music, her performance art "happenings", her films of people's bottoms and such, her museum pieces, etc. -- is shallow, pretentious B.S. She's nothing more than a dilletante.

Perhaps so. I'm not an art critic, so I wouldn't even try to call it "good" or "bad" as art goes. I find it intriguing and thought provoking, which I believe is the intent, but I'm not some avant garde aficionado by any means. And my knowledge of her performance art is limited to what is described in her bios and pretty much every Beatles book or documentary I've seen.

What I do know, is that some of her music (yes, with the shrieking and all that) I have really connected with emotionally. Is it good or bad? Depends on what your criteria are for judging music, if you feel the need to judge it at all. But I wouldn't judge Yoko's music using the same criteria I would for judging a pianist's performance of a Beethoven concerto. Technical skills of the performer are only part of what music is about for me.

I mentioned cookie monster vocals simply as an example of a singing style that many consider to be non-musical, yet lots of folks enjoy it. As I said, different strokes for different folks.

Sorry, I don't mean to be the big Yoko defender here, or to change anyone's opinion of her....you guys can feel free to carry on bashing her. Just giving a different perspective - not everybody hates her.

 

[The Craw]

I don't hate her.

Yoko inspired Cibo Matto. That's good. Mmmm....Miho Hatori!

 

[Larry99]

Perhaps so. I'm not an art critic, so I wouldn't even try to call it "good" or "bad" as art goes. I find it intriguing and thought provoking, which I believe is the intent, but I'm not some avant garde aficionado by any means. And my knowledge of her performance art is limited to what is described in her bios and pretty much every Beatles book or documentary I've seen.

What I do know, is that some of her music (yes, with the shrieking and all that) I have really connected with emotionally. Is it good or bad? Depends on what your criteria are for judging music, if you feel the need to judge it at all. But I wouldn't judge Yoko's music using the same criteria I would for judging a pianist's performance of a Beethoven concerto. Technical skills of the performer are only part of what music is about for me.

Very well said LizzyD. While I don’t particularly enjoy Yoko’s music per se, I think I ‘get’ what she’s all about. Lennon saw something in her so the effect she had on some of his later music can’t be denied. I think it’s been revealed that she had more to do with some of his (very good) later music than previously thought. And I think the video for the song Imagine where Lennon is playing the piano/singing and Yoko is opening all the curtains in the room to let in more and more light, finally revealing a completely white room is really great – it’s very powerful imagery IMO. You’ve got to think she had the idea for that. These are the types of abstract art Yoko does best. Anyway, music and art are subjective so who are we to judge?

One of my favorite quotes which I think applys to Yoko:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt