I prefer to tune down but I went for a Digitech Drop for my cover band gigs. Works well enough for that. I wouldn't use it for recording or for something mellower or quite than the hard rock we play.
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Going between standard tuning, a half step down, and a full step down is just dumb. The band needs to pick one, compromise, and go with it, so you don’t have minutes of dead air between the songs that everyone has to completely retune for (or have to invest 3xs the money in guitars and basses and haul them all around just to play a show in all those different tunings). Unless you’re a national touring act with a crew of roadies, this is ridiculous. If it was my band, I’d make it Eb tuning for everything, and have the singer just sing the songs they usually do in E tuning down a half step (or have the band play it up a half step in the flat tuning to appease the singer if they just can’t do it). And for the songs they tune everything a full step down, I’d just have the band learn to play those songs in drop D instead (or in this case drop Dd). It’s much quicker to detune/retune one string rather than all of them.
This is why I switched to 5 string basses years ago. I play with a lot of different people and songs are always in weird keys, flat or sharp and sometimes change on the fly. A 5 string is my “cheat code”
The two guitars in my hard rock band use ehx pitchforks for down tuning. My solution is two of the same 5 string basses, one tuned to standard one tune a whole step down. For songs a half step down I use which ever bass makes it easiest for me. But that's me. If you feel a pedal is your solution then I would go with the drop.
gratuitous pics below.
Edit: The Meris Hedra is worth looking at as well imo.
gratuitous pics below.
Edit: The Meris Hedra is worth looking at as well imo.
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I know this doesn't address the immedimate need, but it's perhaps the best argument for becoming accustomed to a five string I've seen on TB for a while.
When I first got used to playing a five I thought I'd never have a use for a four again, but that changed, it's a different instrument and fun in it's own right.
But I'd never show up at a new-ish situation without a five unless specifically told NOT to bring one. In the past decade+ people seem to assume the bassist will adapt to key changes with no notice without problem or question. Fives coming on the scene are probably part of the "why" of that.
Make it easy on yourself.
When I first got used to playing a five I thought I'd never have a use for a four again, but that changed, it's a different instrument and fun in it's own right.
But I'd never show up at a new-ish situation without a five unless specifically told NOT to bring one. In the past decade+ people seem to assume the bassist will adapt to key changes with no notice without problem or question. Fives coming on the scene are probably part of the "why" of that.
Make it easy on yourself.
Another vote for the Digidrop although I use it to drop down a half step only. The further you drop the worse it tracks, a full drop still sounds usable.
It's gonna be either one or two semitones?? Tune the bass down two semitones, (tweak the setup as needed), then bring a capo...
Seems like there was a bit of miscommunication about the song keys. Not sure who dropped the ball, but going forward, that is a really critical consideration and should not happen again. Ever.
I’m of a bent a Fiver is in order, but since this is just an audition, you should have time to retune your standard tuned bass to suit. You get the gig, then figure out what your are going to do. I wouldn’t spend a whole lot of money at this point for a gig you may not get. JMO.
Thanks for the replies, most appreciated. And for the clarity on the third pedal (Digi) that is indeed the one I couldn't remember.
Been playing 4 strings only for ~40 years, every time I tried 5s felt like I was wearing gloves. I see the utility in them but at this point in my life I'm not likely to relearn how I play, plus never really cared for them and never needed one before.
A ~$250 pedal vs. a ~$1000+ new bass (ahead of 2 4-strings I've wanted for a long time but can't rationalize the spend) plus the time to get up to speed on it makes a pedal an academic choice, especially only for an audition with a band I don't even know if I even want to join. Having said that, having a DGCF bass could be in my future.
As for the count of how many of the 6 audition songs are in lower keys, they haven't got back to me yet but sounds like 4, of those some are a 1/2 step down and some are a whole step down. For that reason I doubt a capo would work.
The guitarist said that he and the other guitarist use the Zoom to transpose down so recommended it or the EHX.
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What I get from the replies is exactly what I was hoping to, that of the three pedals the Digi is more commonly used by bass players and seems the best choice. Not sure about the Meris, will look into it.
Until I got that, "....oh yeah, by the way...." email days after getting the audition list, I was thinking,
"can these older guys really hit those Classic Rock high notes?". Turns out they tune down because the singer can't.
Thanks again all.
Been playing 4 strings only for ~40 years, every time I tried 5s felt like I was wearing gloves. I see the utility in them but at this point in my life I'm not likely to relearn how I play, plus never really cared for them and never needed one before.
A ~$250 pedal vs. a ~$1000+ new bass (ahead of 2 4-strings I've wanted for a long time but can't rationalize the spend) plus the time to get up to speed on it makes a pedal an academic choice, especially only for an audition with a band I don't even know if I even want to join. Having said that, having a DGCF bass could be in my future.
As for the count of how many of the 6 audition songs are in lower keys, they haven't got back to me yet but sounds like 4, of those some are a 1/2 step down and some are a whole step down. For that reason I doubt a capo would work.
The guitarist said that he and the other guitarist use the Zoom to transpose down so recommended it or the EHX.
-------------------
What I get from the replies is exactly what I was hoping to, that of the three pedals the Digi is more commonly used by bass players and seems the best choice. Not sure about the Meris, will look into it.
Until I got that, "....oh yeah, by the way...." email days after getting the audition list, I was thinking,
"can these older guys really hit those Classic Rock high notes?". Turns out they tune down because the singer can't.
Thanks again all.
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Short answer on latency is a good pedal will add less than 40 milliseconds.
As far as latency, expect it to depend on the note. Higher frequencies will have shorter latency. The digital processor needs to see a full wave to reproduce a wave shifted down in frequency. These are smart pedals that actually break the sound up into separate waves for each note and harmonic, shift each frequency, then replay. Latency will be the wavelength plus processing time. Processing time is short on these modern processors. E at 31Hz has a wavelength of about 33 milliseconds.
The need for a good processor is a lot of the cost of the pedals.
As far as latency, expect it to depend on the note. Higher frequencies will have shorter latency. The digital processor needs to see a full wave to reproduce a wave shifted down in frequency. These are smart pedals that actually break the sound up into separate waves for each note and harmonic, shift each frequency, then replay. Latency will be the wavelength plus processing time. Processing time is short on these modern processors. E at 31Hz has a wavelength of about 33 milliseconds.
The need for a good processor is a lot of the cost of the pedals.
I feel like the aural/physical skill of knowing where notes are on an instrument is what makes me a reasonable bass player.
Relying on pedals and not just doing the work will actively make you a worse musician.
Relying on pedals and not just doing the work will actively make you a worse musician.
I believe if you tune a bass down a whole step then capo the first fret the bass would be tuned a 1/2 step down no? Capo the second fret and it would be back in standard? I like the idea of two basses though so I would keep one in standard and one a step down + capo as needed. As long as they don't go lower than low D it would be good to go and cheaper than a drop pedal imo.
Just tune your bass to the lowest tuning your band uses, and for the songs that are tuned higher then move up higher on the fretboard. You can play an E song when you're in D, but not the other way around. This is why I started exclusively playing 5-strings about a decade ago. Having a low B string means I never have to change anything regardless of whatever the guitarists decide the "tuning of the week" is with their stupid pitch shifter pedals that sound horrible and track terribly
I use a black G7th Nashville capo. The spring is VERY strong, and the bar is plenty long (kind of overkill for a guitar honestly, it's like it was made for bass). It even works on my 6 string bass no issues. I've had it since 2009 and it still works like I just opened it today
G7th Nashville Spring-Operated Guitar Capo
Smooth_bass88
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What's the point? Find people to play with that don't need to tune down a half step or a whole step every other tune. Especially if we're talking classic rock covers. It won't sound right played like that.
Sure it will. Tune down to D standard. Put the capo on the 1st fret and you'll be in Eb standard, put the capo on the 2nd fret and you'll be in E standard, etc.
I use a Shubb capo. There is no spring, it's just a clamp that's essentially clips on and off. It's very simple to set up and use.
It costs a lot less than the pedal too, since you have mentioned this is for a band you're not sure you want to join.
I had a couple of Zoom MS-60b units with the same algorithms as the MS70CDR pedal, and I agree, that the pitch shift wasn't great. Actually, other than the octave effect, pitch shifting wasn't usable.
I now use my Helix to change tuning on the fly for several songs (I prefer playing 4 string basses for reasons not up for discussion here) and I'm able to switch to BEAD to simulate a 5 string, or Eb, or CFA#D# for "No-one Knows" on the fly. A lot easier than swapping instruments around (FWIW I also use a Hipshot Xtender for drop D tunes).
One thing I will note is if you're doing a drastic shift in pitch, such as BEAD tuning, a little EQ helps, to "tune" the harmonic overtones that sound strange when shifted. This will help it sound more natural. I use the snapshots feature in the Helix to change my eq in tandem with whichever tuning
I now use my Helix to change tuning on the fly for several songs (I prefer playing 4 string basses for reasons not up for discussion here) and I'm able to switch to BEAD to simulate a 5 string, or Eb, or CFA#D# for "No-one Knows" on the fly. A lot easier than swapping instruments around (FWIW I also use a Hipshot Xtender for drop D tunes).
One thing I will note is if you're doing a drastic shift in pitch, such as BEAD tuning, a little EQ helps, to "tune" the harmonic overtones that sound strange when shifted. This will help it sound more natural. I use the snapshots feature in the Helix to change my eq in tandem with whichever tuning
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