Your Thoughts On Digital Drums!

[CoffeeLove]

True. Everyone has to be using IEMs.

They really do continue to get better and better as the technology improves. To make one sound good in a live setting you need not only good gear but also a drummer who knows how to manipulate the set (proper velocity sensitivity setting, a good mix from the brain, an understanding of how to hit the drums so they don't sound like repetitive samples and come off as fake)

Cool. I do wonder if he needs to spend more time tuning the electronic kit. He is a solid drummer, so my assumption has been, "what I have heard" from the kit is as good as it can be. It is possible he has not spent the time setting it up, even though he has had it a couple years now. The toms sounded almost identical to each other in pitch (and lacked punch), the snare sounded like a tin can, and the cymbals were shrill. Since we have my nice Yamaha acoustic kit in our practice space (my garage), maybe he would be up for trying to tune each piece of the electric kit to match the acoustic kit (through the QSC K12 uppers and paired subs). He is cool, and would want us to like the sound. I also recorded it with the same songs we have played with an acoustic kit, so might have him listen (acoustic kit dominates in the recordings with a single room mic).

 

[Reedt2000]

Cool. I do wonder if he needs to spend more time tuning the electronic kit. He is a solid drummer, so my assumption has been, "what I have heard" from the kit is as good as it can be. It is possible he has not spent the time setting it up. The toms sounded almost identical to each other in pitch (and lacked punch), the snare sounded like a tin can, and the cymbals were shrill. Since we have my nice Yamaha acoustic kit in our practice space (my garage), maybe he would be up for trying to tune each piece of the electric kit to match the acoustic kit (through the QSC K12 uppers and paired subs). He is cool, and would want us to like the sound

If things sound identical every time I'd suspect he needs to turn down the velocity settings. Most nicer, modern drum brains actually use different samples for different velocities (how hard the triggers are hit). That emulates the change in tone from harder to softer strikes, not just the change in volume. If not set properly you always get the maximum velocity sample and that repetition sounds fake when you hit the same drum multiple times.

 

[Hambone70]

Early e-drums suffered from “machine gunning” snare rolls. Fortunately, the later Roland drums more or less eliminated this. They’re getting better all the time.

I hope the manufacturers put more effort into making e-drums look more like traditional drums. aDrums are getting closer: Invalid Link Removed

 

[LuckyScott]

Im fine with them. They sound much better now than 10 years ago. But they still look funny.....

 

[john_g]

Your Thoughts On Digital Drums!


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Thats not the code for e-drums, thats the code for carrots!

 

[Nevada Pete]

Pete, you make great points.. I find onstage at The Atlantis, in Reno.. for example.. there are no subs at all. YET, in my modest Klipsch S4 in-ears, the kick is always too strong. The bass response is pretty good in those phones- and the kick produces an almost sub frequency in my head. It is definitely stronger, and fatter than my bass sound through the Gen 2 Aviom mixer and into my ears. I cannot EQ the lows out. The Behringer personal mixers actually work a bit better- hey have some channel EQ and compression, which helps. Still, the point I'm making, is that most DRUMMERS I play with LOVE to hear the kick prominent and fat. In the digital drum world, that spells trouble, because of THE ABILITY of a kick mad drummer to send a huge kick out to FOH, and to the monitor mixer, from the module. Hell, it's no fun with acoustic kits. I've played jazz gigs on upright, where it was literally impossible to use the instrument, and had to switch to electric. With NO FOH or sound person of any kind.

Good grief! That sounds frustrating. I guess given the fact that most DRUMMERS you play with, "LOVE to hear the kick prominent and fat", it all boils down to the same old problem. Hard headed drummers! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I probably should have just kept my mouth (keyboard) shut since I haven't personally worked with the specific gear you are describing. I don't understand the setup well enough to comprehend why you can't EQ the lows out of the kick at the Atlantis for your IEM mix. In both cases, it sounds like very limited monitor mixing facilities.

 

[rashrader]

I just hope they shower and use deodorant.

Correct. Such as toxic personalities, poor musicianship, no dynamics, kits unsuited to the venues played (Neil Peart-esque vs. a lounge kit), continual scheduling issues, chronic lateness, unwillingness to tune a kit/use lighter sticks or rods/adjust their e-kit patches beyond the first entry of the drum brain’s menu. Etcetera.

Like, all that artistic integrity stuff, bro. Cuz u don’t know me at all! Would I ask u to play with...with a BOTTLE CAP instead of a pick, brah?!? And...and this freakin e-kit has 1ms LATENCY! DON’T U CARE ABOUT QUALITY???

Yes, I’ve worked with drummers and guitarists with issues. Nevertheless, I still play with others, most of whom are good musicians and wonderful people. Hope springs eternal.

 

[DanAleks]

As a drummer who plays on an electric kit, I have to ask:
Do YOU let someone tell you what bass to play?

No; and when there's a thread about someone telling a bass player what equipment to use, hissy fits and bunched panties abound.

'nuff said.

 

[Tony In Philly]

As a drummer who plays on an electric kit, I have to ask:
Do YOU let someone tell you what bass to play?

No; and when there's a thread about someone telling a bass player what equipment to use, hissy fits and bunched panties abound.

'nuff said.

I've played with some drummers who will very emphatically let you know what basses of yours they prefer for you to use.

 

[Ric5]

Thats not the code for e-drums, thats the code for carrots!

Are you sure?

 

[DanAleks]

I've played with some drummers who will very emphatically let you know what basses of yours they prefer for you to use.

And they should not. To me, that's a Richard Head move.
I have told the bass player I really like the sound they're getting from a particular bass or I can't hear the bass/it's too loud, but it's up to them to decide what to use.

 

[Nevada Pete]

Im fine with them. They sound much better now than 10 years ago. But they still look funny.....

I'm with you! I still can't quite get used to the way eDrums look. Blaaaaa. I realize it's supposed to be the sound that counts. But the dang things just don't appeal to me visually. I've always admired a beautiful kit. Especially under the bright lights. A beautiful kit adds sparkle and excitement to the stage.

Is is not feasible to use acoustic shells and mount the eDrum sensor in the shell? Seems to me there ought to be a way to even stretch a membrane (of some kind or other) over the darkly colored sensor, so the drum doesn't even look like a typical eDrum. Go with acoustic cymbals, and you'd be there. Has / would anybody actually do that, do you think?

 

[rd2rk]

As a drummer who plays on an electric kit, I have to ask:
Do YOU let someone tell you what bass to play?

No; and when there's a thread about someone telling a bass player what equipment to use, hissy fits and bunched panties abound.

'nuff said.

This is an argument that purposely avoids the issue. The issue is VOLUME. If the gig demands a silent stage, you MUST use e-drums. If you're playing a dinner club with a stadium sized set, it's going to be hard to get any energy out of your drums without getting the venue owner really pissed. But even if you've got a cocktail lounge sized set, if you play them like Jon Bonham it's not going to work. This is a subject that a PRO drummer gets, and if you're a PRO you won't be hearing anybody tell you what to play.

The bass equivalent would be a guy who brings an SVT and a fridge to that same dinner club, or wants to use an acoustic upright in a death metal band.

PROs know what equipment is appropriate for a given gig, and are ready, willing and ABLE to use it.

 

[Nevada Pete]

And they should not. To me, that's a Richard Head move.
I have told the bass player I really like the sound they're getting from a particular bass or I can't hear the bass/it's too loud, but it's up to them to decide what to use.

<And they should not.>

Okay. To each his own. But, why not?

The people I might happen to be performing with can tell me anything they want to tell me. I will listen, and usually, I'm willing to try what they suggest. For example, if the drummer likes one bass over another (i.e., for instance, at some live gigs, band mates sometimes prefer a Jazz over a Precision on account of the clarity), then why wouldn't I play it? If I didn't respect their opinions and wishes, I wouldn't be playing with them. And I wouldn't keep a bass very long if I didn't like to play it, anyway. Besides, it's not like i'm playing a command performance for her Highness, the Queen of England during the Middle Ages where she might order my head loped off.

Now, if there is a producer, music director, conductor, arranger, etc., then its a different story. If you can't give the boss what they're looking for, they replace you.

 

[CoffeeLove]

<And they should not.>

Okay. To each his own. But, why not?

The people I might happen to be performing with can tell me anything they want to tell me. I will listen, and usually, I'm willing to try what they suggest. For example, if the drummer likes one bass over another (i.e., for instance, at some live gigs, band mates sometimes prefer a Jazz over a Precision on account of the clarity), then why wouldn't I play it? If I didn't respect their opinions and wishes, I wouldn't be playing with them. And I wouldn't keep a bass very long if I didn't like to play it, anyway. Besides, it's not like i'm playing a command performance for her Highness, the Queen of England during the Middle Ages where she might order my head loped off.

Now, if there is a producer, music director, conductor, arranger, etc., then its a different story. If you can't give the boss what they're looking for, they replace you. Doesn't sound like many players here on TB are familiar with those situations.

Me too! I really like getting feedback from other bandmates about gear, tone, etc...Happy to bring whatever bass they want me to play, because they all sound killer. Also open to changing the way I play if there is a suggestion from another band member, and it makes sense. The "don't tell me what to do" mentality is foreign to me, since I do not view ideas and suggestions as criticism (if coming from the right place), but as an attempt to improve the show. However, I am a public school teacher, and quite comfortable with people assessing my performance, as well as receiving constructive feedback. It is the only way to improve a skill-set, or in this case the sound of the drums (IMHO).

 

[Acoustic356]

I have found that using software instead of the drum modules. The software has come a long way. Another thing that helps is having a drum monitor near the drum with a decent sub so you can feel the kick.

 

[john_g]

Are you sure?

I am as sure of that as I am that I look like Brad Pitt!

 

[LHbassist]

Good grief! That sounds frustrating. I guess given the fact that most DRUMMERS you play with, "LOVE to hear the kick prominent and fat", it all boils down to the same old problem. Hard headed drummers! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I probably should have just kept my mouth (keyboard) shut since I haven't personally worked with the specific gear you are describing. I don't understand the setup well enough to comprehend why you can't EQ the lows out of the kick at the Atlantis for your IEM mix. In both cases, it sounds like very limited monitor mixing facilities.

The AVIOM personal mixers are the industry standard now. They are pretty amazing, actually. A digital 16 channel personal monitor mixer, on a mic stand. They STILL do not have all the features of a real mixer, though. I once used my own 16 channel mixer, with digital effects, full EQ and a bass cut switch for each channel, using my own snake- at a gig in Oroville, CA.. That allowed me to remove all the offensive really low frequencies from the kick, and from the synths. I loved it- until the bandleader bought Avioms, and INSISTED we all use them.
The sends from the DI'ed Roland drum module, are left and right only- no individual drums. So, no option to dial out the too loud bits.
I am not opposed to digital drum kits. I just wish drummers would NOT get so power mad- like Millennials with subs and 3k watts to run the kick through them at truly stupid levels.
There are some bands I wotk with, that bring a sub. When it's on my side of the stage, I will not have fun, at all. Still beats mixin' cement all day. I know.

 

[Nevada Pete]

The AVIOM personal mixers are the industry standard now. They are pretty amazing, actually. A digital 16 channel personal monitor mixer, on a mic stand. They STILL do not have all the features of a real mixer, though. I once used my own 16 channel mixer, with digital effects, full EQ and a bass cut switch for each channel, using my own snake- at a gig in Oroville, CA.. That allowed me to remove all the offensive really low frequencies from the kick, and from the synths. I loved it- until the bandleader bought Avioms, and INSISTED we all use them.
The sends from the DI'ed Roland drum module, are left and right only- no individual drums. So, no option to dial out the too loud bits.
I am not opposed to digital drum kits. I just wish drummers would NOT get so power mad- like Millennials with subs and 3k watts to run the kick through them at truly stupid levels.
There are some bands I wotk with, that bring a sub. When it's on my side of the stage, I will not have fun, at all. Still beats mixin' cement all day. I know.

Sounds like the only thing that might give you some improvement would be a battery powered personal IEM amp with some overall EQ and HPF options. I thought I saw something like that, two channel. Might be mistaken. At the risk of volunteering somebody, maybe PM fdeck or Passinwind and see if they can come up with something. Seems like it would be a commercially viable product, and for them, easy to design. Good luck.

 

[DanAleks]

This is an argument that purposely avoids the issue. The issue is VOLUME. If the gig demands a silent stage, you MUST use e-drums. If you're playing a dinner club with a stadium sized set, it's going to be hard to get any energy out of your drums without getting the venue owner really pissed. But even if you've got a cocktail lounge sized set, if you play them like Jon Bonham it's not going to work. This is a subject that a PRO drummer gets, and if you're a PRO you won't be hearing anybody tell you what to play.

The bass equivalent would be a guy who brings an SVT and a fridge to that same dinner club, or wants to use an acoustic upright in a death metal band.

PROs know what equipment is appropriate for a given gig, and are ready, willing and ABLE to use it.

Nope.
The issue was "Will you play with digital drums". Nothing was said about volume or kit size in relation to venue size until you brought it up.

PROs know what equipment is appropriate for a given gig, and are ready, willing and ABLE to use it.
You are 100% correct. What I'm talking about is somebody that says "I hate the sound of a (fill in the bass of choice)" and wants you to change.
Not because it's inappropriate for the gig, but because THEY don't like it. Or someone saying they don't like digital drums and won't play with them.

I refuse to take digital drums to a jazz gig because you can't play them with brushes.
Digital drums are inappropriate for the gig. Rock? Country? Metal? - Why not?