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Summit Audio grand review

Bassflute

Bassflute

Jun 24, 2006
2,560
90
Vancouver
www.youtube.com
Disclosures
Endorsing Artist: MTD basses and strings; Bergantino Amps & Cabs
#1
I currently have 3 beautiful Summit Audio pieces at my house, courtesy of Paul at Summit Audio and L&M music, for evaluation. I have totally changed my thinking about bass rigs; if you need to EQ, you've got the wrong amp.

For years I struggled with all kinds of amps, giant, back-breakingly heavy things, racks of electronics, eq'ing the crap out of stuff, trying an amp at the store, playing two notes and immediately reaching for the 'tone' knobs. I used to use the Aphex rackmount 204 (old version) for 15 years, long before they were fashionable, and bass players and others used to give me a great deal of heat, saying 'what do you need that for?' "That's for vocals" etc; I even went out and bought the new 204 when it was still up around $600.00 and used it to help get rid of the 'boxiness' of my cabs and stuff. Finally finding the Berg passive cabs, thanks to Mr. Bowlus, I don't have to worry about boxiness anymore, but I would go to gigs and be tweaking knobs all night instead of concentrating on the music. I knew I had some of the finest basses in the world, good strings, fabulous cabs, so it MUST be the amp. Bit the bullet and got the IP mini-stack. Amazing little device. Tried the Aguilar 680; it was good, not great, big, heavy, expensive, but not quite what I was after - still constantly tweaking knobs trying to get the sound I was after, but never quite got there. Tried some other low end 'bass' pre's - nah. Made the Berg system sound like a crummy bass amp. And this is where the Summit Audio pieces come in.

I brought the 2BA-221 mic/instrument pre home from the store, plugged it in, and instant tonal nirvana. It doesn't have one single tone control, not even a true volume control - there is a gain for the solid state pre, and one for the tube output stage. Through the Berg system, it sounds simply magical. Astonishing, and the tone controls on my MTD work 1,000 times better. My bass sounded absolutely amazing! You don't need knobs to make music; I played happily for about an hour. I had to try the other stuff.

I plugged their little TLA-50 tube levelling amplifier (compressor) into the signal chain - made my bass sound thick, rich, deep, with tube creamy gooeyness and squishiness, totally musical and instantly useable. Incredible, with the Bergs it sounded like about 4 SVT's with a matched set of brand-new Telefunken tubes running through the finest speakers on earth. Astonishing - the sound I personally have been looking for my whole life. Not a 'tone' control in sight. Warm, punchy, crisp, fast, sweet, loud, and old school, but in a Bentley Turbo R kind of way. Stunningly good; actually, stunningly great. My MTD's, both of them, fretless and fretted, were in absolute tonal heaven. The best bass sound I have ever heard in my life, period, bar none. And I can't believe it's MY sound. Incredible. I had to phone the store and rant, phoned all my bass friends and best students, phoned Summit Audio to tell them I'd found it. I haven't been this excited about bass since my first MTD arrived.

Last unit - the FeQ-50 four band parametric eq. Amazing little machine, with both tube and SS outputs, sounds incredible, powerful, accurate. Among the best sets of tone controls I have ever used, right up there with the API 500 series stuff, the Pultec, and the Blue Tube stuff I have used in studios, all of which are MAGNITUDES more costly than this teeny little Summit gem. Did I need it with the other two pieces? And this is where my thinking now has totally changed; No. Not at all. If your input signal is right, and you've got a good instrument, EQ is an effect. If I had to do a Reggae gig, and didn't want to sound like Chris Squire on it, then yeah, I'd need some EQ. Taming a bad room - you bet. To get a good, sorry, a GREAT sound out of my bass? Nope.

This Summit stuff is pure tonal bliss. You can rackmount the pre and the TLA 50 together in one rackspace, under 15 pounds, sounds like God. Unbelievably good. And instant ultra-high-quality DI built into the back. If you've got a Berg, and the loot, buy one. You won't miss your EQ, and the preamp on your bass (if you've got one) will be SO powerful you won't believe it. I played for about two and a half hours straight through until I was asked to stop. Even my ex, who is a drummer, said "that sounds SO good!"

I am going to L&M today to pick up the TD100 to see how it compares to this pre, as well. Will report back. But I think my knob tweaking days are over. If you've got a Berg, really - try the Summit stuff. I've been auditioning some other pieces as well, but for me, I think this is it. The pre and the compressor now, DEFINITELY, and the EQ when my bank account recovers a bit.

Thanks once again to the amazing Mr. Bowlus for pointing this stuff out.

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#3
Bassflute said:
I currently have 3 beautiful Summit Audio pieces at my house, courtesy of Paul at Summit Audio and L&M music, for evaluation. I have totally changed my thinking about bass rigs; if you need to EQ, you've got the wrong amp.
Click to expand...
I agree somewhat, but then I don't. The ability to tweak is welcome IMHO, but if you're getting a great sound you like out of a preamp that you don't need to tweak, nothing wrong with that, either.
 
#7
stingray56funk said:
True as well. For instance...our Portaflex amps!
Click to expand...

having owned one after trading in my 50 watt Fender Bassman 2x12 back when people used to use them for bass, I can now get a really close approximation of that sound with a squishy tube pre, driven to mild overdrive, and a bit of tube soaked compession, rolled off treble from about 3K up. The only difference from the old days is that now I've got 1,000 watts available to me.

Mwah ha ha.....

A really ******* BIG Portaflex!

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#8
jdwinva said:
Yeah, I think you will find the TA-100 is also amazing!
Click to expand...

It is a lovely piece of kit, as is ALL the Summit stuff. It is a little stiffer and 'drier' for lack of a better term, than the 221 preamp. Tighter, perhaps, but a bit sterile when compared to the wonderfully versatile 2BA-221 pre. What am I saying? Sterile? Not in the slightest - it sounds fantastic. Just a little less versatile than the 221. On the 221, you can push up the Solid State section, and get very close to that TD 100 sound, or add as much or as little gooey tube squish as you like with the 221, getting into Ampeg Portaflex kind of big squishy tube overdrive stuff (I humped one of those around, the BIG one, the B15S, 60 watts, 15" Altec-Lansing {pre JBL for those in the know} for abouty five years). With the TD100, it's one very fine fine pre, superb, but one flavour only. Also, I found the impedance loading did absolutely nothing with either of my MTD's. Probably more useful with passive basses.

If I had to buy just one, I'd spend the extra hundred or so and get the Summit 2BA- 221 pre. Many, many great flavours, and even some nice tube overdrive distortion.

But either of them with the TLA 50 - WOW. Totally transformed. Think Jaco on 'Portrait of Tracy' kind of big honking compression, if you want, or more, or much much less. Totally musical - two knobs. Every setting sounds great. If you are a current TD100 owner, save your pennies and get a TLA and the rackmount kit. It would be more important and effective I think than trading in your TD 100 for a 2BA-221. Compression is NOT an effect; it is a fact of life for bass players. You have all GOT to hear this little guy. Big, squishy, warm, fat fat fat, just freaking great. It is a tonal effect, more important than EQ, IMHO. At least when you have a great pre amp like ANY of these units are.

Just for the record, IMHO of course, these units ALL sound significantly better than the venerable Aguilar DB680. The big, two space Aggie with 5, count em, FIVE tubes. Sorry. I always loved that pre, back when I hadn't tried it and thought I could NEVER afford one. Maybe it was a perfect match with it's companion 500lb tube amp monster; perhaps that's why they kept it kind of stiff and harsh, because the power amp was so squishy and warm...my how times have changed.

Anyway, the Summit stuff is simply splendid, beyond good, and affordable. I'd like to keep them all, but I'm no TB...I'm on a bass player's salary.

:bawl:

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#9
I forgot to mention one other important aspect of this unit; it has a whole 'nuther mike pre that I haven't even tried yet, so it can also be used for recording vocals, saxes, and the like, or even for miking bass cabs. The mike pre section has a solid state gain, impedance dial, and a high pass sweep filter, from 20 to 200HZ, as well as a 20 dB pad switch, a polarity switch (which works on both channels, affecting the whole unit), and the high pass on / off switch. I haven't tried it yet, but if it's anywhere NEAR what the high impedance section is like, I'm sure it's magnificent.

One unique feature of all of the Summit stuff that is quite rare; you can use ALL of the outputs simultaneously, no problem, and likewise with the inputs.

Very impressive little device, and from talking to Paul quite extensively on the phone, a very responsive little company, dedicated to customer service.

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#10
Bassflute said:
. I have totally changed my thinking about bass rigs; if you need to EQ, you've got the wrong amp.
Click to expand...

Nice review and nice stuff.

However, I would change your above quote to:

'If you need EQ to get your amp to sound good right out of the box, you have the wrong amp'.

However, EQ used correctly (i.e., to keep an amp sounding relatively constant in a wide variety of acoustical contexts like boomy rooms, bright rooms, dull rooms, big rooms, small rooms, and with different basses) is an absolute necessity IMO and IME. Yes, you can control your tone through techique and on-board EQ's, but I like to use those things to flavor my tone from tune to tune after I have my rig dialed into the room. Many times, that's just a very small adjustment of the mids or low end on the amp, but it makes a big difference in less than optimal situations.


:D
 
#12
I love my Summit TD-100 with my Berg IP310, but I wish the FEQ-50 were a little cheaper. Summit stuff is certainly as good as it gets, but $1K for an EQ (even if it's FANTASTIC) is a little rich for my blood.

I'm with Ken. I tend to set my EQ flat, but often find myself having to tweak it in certain rooms to counter "room or stage issues."
 
#13
Personally, Cameron, I don't find the Summit units affordable. At that price they had better sound good!!!!

I do agree with your comments about EQs to some extent. I like how my basses sound right out of the jack. I always run my amps flat as that gives me the tone I hear in my head, if that makes sense. While I love tube amps, I've built hundreds in my time, I have no interest in playing through one. That being said, I DO like to have a tube or two in the signal chain. Never for distortion, I've spent most of my life getting rid of distortion, but for "That" sound.

Enjoy your Summit units - I hope they serve you well.

Paul
 
#14
The FeQ-50 I found to be too subtle bass. I am a confirmed fan and user of the TD-100. The loading knob does nothing on an active bass and will make a passive Fender sound like you brought three different basses to a session. Make that five.:)

Their stuff is affordable compared to their studio stuff. That gear is in fact for studios that charge so much per hour that they recoup their investment quickly.

Tone controls really do adjust the rig to the environment. However with the Bergs I rarely change anything room to room to outside on my pres. I am fond of actual pre and post gain on pres that the Summits don't give me. Yet I do play gigs with just the TD-100 into an IP112.

Summit is a great company with great customer service. I've needed actual tech guidance rather than any repair. Their gear is really well made and rugged. Their assistance in developing the Berg Mod points to their willingness to work with the end user and other manufacturers to get the music out there.

The TD-100 is just amazing.

Thanks for the review dude! If it sounds like he's dissing any other gear forget it. The IPs expose all the strengths and weaknesses of preamps. What works into a traditional power amp and speakers now may come across as frequency limited noisy and lacking headroom. What you may find is that you love the sound of your bass and don't want anything in the way.

Those SVT comparisons could however attract some flames so don your Nomex gear.:) Yet with a Kern on an IP310 I can get that melted sound.
 
#15
Bassflute said:
I currently have 3 beautiful Summit Audio pieces at my house, courtesy of Paul at Summit Audio and L&M music, for evaluation. I have totally changed my thinking about bass rigs; if you need to EQ, you've got the wrong amp.

For years I struggled with all kinds of amps, giant, back-breakingly heavy things, racks of electronics, eq'ing the crap out of stuff, trying an amp at the store, playing two notes and immediately reaching for the 'tone' knobs. I used to use the Aphex rackmount 204 (old version) for 15 years, long before they were fashionable, and bass players and others used to give me a great deal of heat, saying 'what do you need that for?' "That's for vocals" etc; I even went out and bought the new 204 when it was still up around $600.00 and used it to help get rid of the 'boxiness' of my cabs and stuff. Finally finding the Berg passive cabs, thanks to Mr. Bowlus, I don't have to worry about boxiness anymore, but I would go to gigs and be tweaking knobs all night instead of concentrating on the music. I knew I had some of the finest basses in the world, good strings, fabulous cabs, so it MUST be the amp. Bit the bullet and got the IP mini-stack. Amazing little device. Tried the Aguilar 680; it was good, not great, big, heavy, expensive, but not quite what I was after - still constantly tweaking knobs trying to get the sound I was after, but never quite got there. Tried some other low end 'bass' pre's - nah. Made the Berg system sound like a crummy bass amp. And this is where the Summit Audio pieces come in.

I brought the 2BA-221 mic/instrument pre home from the store, plugged it in, and instant tonal nirvana. It doesn't have one single tone control, not even a true volume control - there is a gain for the solid state pre, and one for the tube output stage. Through the Berg system, it sounds simply magical. Astonishing, and the tone controls on my MTD work 1,000 times better. My bass sounded absolutely amazing! You don't need knobs to make music; I played happily for about an hour. I had to try the other stuff.

I plugged their little TLA-50 tube levelling amplifier (compressor) into the signal chain - made my bass sound thick, rich, deep, with tube creamy gooeyness and squishiness, totally musical and instantly useable. Incredible, with the Bergs it sounded like about 4 SVT's with a matched set of brand-new Telefunken tubes running through the finest speakers on earth. Astonishing - the sound I personally have been looking for my whole life. Not a 'tone' control in sight. Warm, punchy, crisp, fast, sweet, loud, and old school, but in a Bentley Turbo R kind of way. Stunningly good; actually, stunningly great. My MTD's, both of them, fretless and fretted, were in absolute tonal heaven. The best bass sound I have ever heard in my life, period, bar none. And I can't believe it's MY sound. Incredible. I had to phone the store and rant, phoned all my bass friends and best students, phoned Summit Audio to tell them I'd found it. I haven't been this excited about bass since my first MTD arrived.

Last unit - the FeQ-50 four band parametric eq. Amazing little machine, with both tube and SS outputs, sounds incredible, powerful, accurate. Among the best sets of tone controls I have ever used, right up there with the API 500 series stuff, the Pultec, and the Blue Tube stuff I have used in studios, all of which are MAGNITUDES more costly than this teeny little Summit gem. Did I need it with the other two pieces? And this is where my thinking now has totally changed; No. Not at all. If your input signal is right, and you've got a good instrument, EQ is an effect. If I had to do a Reggae gig, and didn't want to sound like Chris Squire on it, then yeah, I'd need some EQ. Taming a bad room - you bet. To get a good, sorry, a GREAT sound out of my bass? Nope.

This Summit stuff is pure tonal bliss. You can rackmount the pre and the TLA 50 together in one rackspace, under 15 pounds, sounds like God. Unbelievably good. And instant ultra-high-quality DI built into the back. If you've got a Berg, and the loot, buy one. You won't miss your EQ, and the preamp on your bass (if you've got one) will be SO powerful you won't believe it. I played for about two and a half hours straight through until I was asked to stop. Even my ex, who is a drummer, said "that sounds SO good!"

I am going to L&M today to pick up the TD100 to see how it compares to this pre, as well. Will report back. But I think my knob tweaking days are over. If you've got a Berg, really - try the Summit stuff. I've been auditioning some other pieces as well, but for me, I think this is it. The pre and the compressor now, DEFINITELY, and the EQ when my bank account recovers a bit.

Thanks once again to the amazing Mr. Bowlus for pointing this stuff out.

Cheers,
Cameron
Click to expand...


Wow! A great review. Never tried the Bergs or the Summits, but your review illustrates why Bass Central (UK) recommends these two being used together. I think I'd really have to try it myself to get over that prconceived idea that two little boxes with 12" speakers could really sound as huge as you say they do. I've found that on the rare occasions that I've used 12" cabs I've loved the sound when playing fingerstyle, but hated the slap sound. How do you find it?
 
#17
I brought my TLA-50 and passive bass to a studio over the summer. I hadn't recorded there before, and was pleasantly surprised to see a TD-100 already in residence. These two in tandem do make for EXCELLENT tone. I didn't use any eq at all. Just about every time I went back, the studio owner asked me to "let him know if I decided to get rid of that" (TLA-50). ;)
 
#19
KJung said:
Nice review and nice stuff.

However, I would change your above quote to:

'If you need EQ to get your amp to sound good right out of the box, you have the wrong amp'.

However, EQ used correctly (i.e., to keep an amp sounding relatively constant in a wide variety of acoustical contexts like boomy rooms, bright rooms, dull rooms, big rooms, small rooms, and with different basses) is an absolute necessity IMO and IME. Yes, you can control your tone through techique and on-board EQ's, but I like to use those things to flavor my tone from tune to tune after I have my rig dialed into the room. Many times, that's just a very small adjustment of the mids or low end on the amp, but it makes a big difference in less than optimal situations.


:D
Click to expand...

BartmanPDX said:
I love my Summit TD-100 with my Berg IP310, but I wish the FEQ-50 were a little cheaper. Summit stuff is certainly as good as it gets, but $1K for an EQ (even if it's FANTASTIC) is a little rich for my blood.

I'm with Ken. I tend to set my EQ flat, but often find myself having to tweak it in certain rooms to counter "room or stage issues."
Click to expand...

I tried the FEQ 50 , and although fantastic, a little rich for my blood at this point. Someday, 2 of them.

At L&M this week, I found a used STEREO version of this parametric EQ

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Called a 2240 for $350.00! This unit this was well over $2,000.00 new. Anyway, it is a + or - 20dB 4-band full parametric eq, from 20-20Khz, with true bypass hard-wire switching and a bandwidth control that goes from 3 octaves down to 1/10 (!!!) octave, which is as accurate as having a 100 band graphic going from 20-20khz. Quite incredible, it's totally sonically neutral and quiet. And foot switchable to boot. Just what the doctor ordered.

Generally, I like to run compression THEN EQ, but on this Summit stuff, the TLA is so rich and creamy, I have put it at the end of the signal chain. And I have found that the EQ unit sounds best for me in the FX loop of the 221 (1 more advantage to that unit over the TD100 - an effects loop). These are THE most powerful EQ units I have ever tried; +/- 20 dB!

So now I've got some EQ.

And yeah, photos soon. I'm waiting for the rack kit for the Summit pieces; it's a mess right now. And I've got to make some good xlr cables for the graphic so I can have both channels hooked up to 1 mono fx loop.

This rig sounds absolutely phenomenal, and the EQ unit is simply stellar - SO powerful it is ridiculous.

Cheers,
Cameron
 
#20
Congrats on the new rig Cam!! Great review, sounds incredible! :cool:


I spoke with Paul at Summit about the differences between the TD100 and 2BA-221 before I got L&M to bring in my TD100. Absolutely, great equipment and great people to deal with. I'd still love to try/buy a 2BA-221 someday but hey, can't have it all... all at once that is ;)

BTW... you've got a PM :smug:
 

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