Gauge and tension misconceptions

[KingRazor]

I'm far from an expert on this subject, but I see this question come up a lot so I wanted to put something in perspective.

If you follow D'Addario's handy String Tension Guide you'll notice that most of your standard string sets are very unbalanced in their tension. I'm not even going to say that's a bad thing, I'm just stating that that's the truth for what I would say is most standard string sets out there. Obviously this differs a bit between brands.

To put in perspective just how unbalanced they can be, a typical "medium light" .045-.100 set (45, 65, 80, 100)

(as seen in the following sets: D'Addario EXL170, DR Medium-Lite, Dunlop Medium Light, Ernie Ball Super Slinky, Fender 7250 Medium Light, GHS Boomer Medium Light, and Rotosound RS66LN (swing bass 66), among others)

Breaks out to (following the D'Addario tension chart):

.045 (tuned to G) is 42.8 pounds of tension
.065 (tuned to D) is 51.3 pounds of tension
.080 (tuned to A) is 42 pounds of tension
.100 (tuned to E) is 36.5 pounds of tension

So you're left with a light E string and a super heavy D string.

Then if you want to add a low B string to the mix...the average B string is between .125 and .135 gauge, which is between 31.4 and 36.1 pounds of tension, giving it less tension than any of the other strings. It's a difference of 20 pounds between the B and D strings.

To get a low B that matches the set very well you'd need a .145 or .150. Which I agree is pretty massive.

So if you look at this you'll probably start to notice something: The lower in pitch the note is that the string is tuned to, the less difference in tension there is between gauges. There's only a difference of about 2 pounds between a .130 and a .135 low B string.

This also means that the higher in pitch the note that the string is tuned to is, the bigger the difference will be. The difference between a .060 gauge D string and a .065 is about 9 pounds.

I want to reiterate that I don't actually think imbalanced sets are inherently bad. Obviously they still sell well, and players really don't seem to mind the difference. In fact I doubt some players even notice the difference. But I see a lot of discussion about 5 strings and the low B and I think the misconception is that people assume that most B strings are supposed to be about the same tension as the rest of the set, when they're usually much lighter.

Tension is also obviously not the only important factor in choosing a string. In fact it might not matter to you at all. It does matter to me, which is why I play balanced tension sets.

Hope that helps clear things up a little maybe?

 

[svlilioukalani]

Wow that is totally interesting. But I think totally irrelevant. Just a sales ploy to sell strings. All I care about is sound. I expect uneven tension anyway. You get use to what ever in time. Try playing a upright bass sometime. Uneven tension is why Alembic and now many others put 2 truss rods in the neck.

Why sacrifice tone for even tension?

 

[pacojas]

the only thing i hate is a G string that feels out of place.

 

[KingRazor]

Wow that is totally interesting. But I think totally irrelevant. Just a sales ploy to sell strings. All I care about is sound. I expect uneven tension anyway. You get use to what ever in time. Try playing a upright bass sometime. Uneven tension is why Alembic and now many others put 2 truss rods in the neck.

Why sacrifice tone for even tension?

I disagree, I don't feel that it is completely irrelevant, or a marketing ploy. I've tried both and I absolutely prefer having a more balanced tension.

You don't necessarily have to sacrifice tone for tension. Unless it's essential that you have a .065 D string instead of a .060 I guess.

Do you know how much tension each string has on an upright? I doubt there's a difference of 20 pounds. But even if there is comparing an upright to an electric is really apples and oranges.

I actually prefer the tone of heavier E and B strings, personally.

 

[Jon Moody]

you know how much tension each string has on an upright? I doubt there's a difference of 20 pounds. But even if there is comparing an upright to an electric is really apples and oranges.

Most upright players - and classical musicians in general - don't care so much for the actual tension of a string as they do the tone. That's why you'll find many musicians in the classical world using 2 or more different brands of strings. It's about the tone, feel and how they speak under a bow. Tension has little to do with it for them.

 

[iiipopes]

The reason the D string was thicker in diameter than an "even" tension might otherwise indicate is because polepieces were generally flat but the fingerboards had an arc. So the D string was farther away from the pole piece, and it had to have more mass to generate the same signal.

The E string (and by extension, the B string) was made thinner (and Pirastro still does this for their classical double bass sets) so that it was more flexible, had more overtones, and response to match the rest of the strings.

With current string technology, and generally flatter fingerboards, especially with five and six string electric basses, these accommodations don't mean as much as they used to, and more even tone can be made and the flexibility retained from string to string while making a more "even" tensioned set by use of such variables as core/wrap ratio, width of flat wrap, multi-wrap strings, and so forth.
...

 

[KingRazor]

Most upright players - and classical musicians in general - don't care so much for the actual tension of a string as they do the tone. That's why you'll find many musicians in the classical world using 2 or more different brands of strings. It's about the tone, feel and how they speak under a bow. Tension has little to do with it for them.

And that's fine, but that's still really apples and oranges.

I never meant to say that tension was everything, or even overall feel. In fact if you read my OP, you'd notice I said "Tension is also obviously not the only important factor in choosing a string".

That said it is a factor for some people, such as myself, since it affects how you play. An imbalance in tension might not be detrimental to your playing at all but it will still have an affect on it, since with varying amounts of stiffness you have to adjust how hard or light you hit a string to get it to vibrate the same way another string does.

For instance, with overall higher tension strings, I can really "dig in" without fear of fret noise and such, with lower tension I have to play with a lighter touch and be more careful in how I play.

Tension isn't everything but it's important to some people, including myself.

 

[CoarseBass]

I'm a pretty solid convert to balanced tension. There is no tone compromise, just, to me, an easier set of strings to play. I just bought a BTB7 with a traditional set of D'Addarios on there - Tension ranges from 54(D) to 36(B) pounds. Still fun to play? Absolutely. But really shocking with my other instruments on balanced tension sets. The 7 will probably get some SR2000s just to try, then Circle K balanced after that.

I see a lot of talk out there of 'inverse tension' sets, too - people building their own from singles. The idea is to buck the trend of a typical set, which is generally loose down low and tighter up high, with higher tension on the B/E strings and lower on the D/G/C etc strings.

I think it sounds like a great idea, I might try it when I where the current balanced set out on my ATK. I beat on the B/E/A strings quite a bit - fast rock lines, thumb stuff, 8th and 16th notes, where my D/G/C strings tend to get less of that and more chording, bending and tapping. Plus, I find popping a lower tension string to be easier, and the tone of a thinner string buzzing due to low tension/low action is usually quieter, less clangy, more musical.

Knuckle...is Circle K going to offer inverted tension sets anytime soon?

 

[KingRazor]

I'm a pretty solid convert to balanced tension. There is no tone compromise, just, to me, an easier set of strings to play. I just bought a BTB7 with a traditional set of D'Addarios on there - Tension ranges from 54(D) to 36(B) pounds. Still fun to play? Absolutely. But really shocking with my other instruments on balanced tension sets. The 7 will probably get some SR2000s just to try, then Circle K balanced after that.

I see a lot of talk out there of 'inverse tension' sets, too - people building their own from singles. The idea is to buck the trend of a typical set, which is generally loose down low and tighter up high, with higher tension on the B/E strings and lower on the D/G/C etc strings.

I think it sounds like a great idea, I might try it when I where the current balanced set out on my ATK. I beat on the B/E/A strings quite a bit - fast rock lines, thumb stuff, 8th and 16th notes, where my D/G/C strings tend to get less of that and more chording, bending and tapping. Plus, I find popping a lower tension string to be easier, and the tone of a thinner string buzzing due to low tension/low action is usually quieter, less clangy, more musical.

Knuckle...is Circle K going to offer inverted tension sets anytime soon?

Skinny top, heavy bottom is popular on guitar, I could see why it would work just as well on bass.

 

[Jon Moody]

I'll put this PDF here, because we are discussing tension. And I didn't spend 3 months working on it to have people assume that the D'Addario chart is true for all other string companies.

For the record, I've played a couple Balanced Tension sets, and they're not for me. Could I tell a difference in feel? Sure. Was it something that "revolutionized" my playing, or something that made me want to use them from here on out? No. They were nice strings to be sure, but tonally some of them sounded like two separate sets, between the BEAD and GC strings.

 

[Kmonk]

All I care about is how the string sounds. I honestly couldn't care less about tension and even though the topic does seem to come up on TB, I have never met anyone who ever mentioned tension. That's what the truss rod is for.

 

[KingRazor]

I'll put this PDF here, because we are discussing tension. And I didn't spend 3 months working on it to have people assume that the D'Addario chart is true for all other string companies.

For the record, I've played a couple Balanced Tension sets, and they're not for me. Could I tell a difference in feel? Sure. Was it something that "revolutionized" my playing, or something that made me want to use them from here on out? No. They were nice strings to be sure, but tonally some of them sounded like two separate sets, between the BEAD and GC strings.

Thanks for the chart, I've always been pretty irritated that D'Addario and Circle K were the only string companies that had tension charts available. This gives me another one to compare to.

Balanced tension didn't revolutionize my playing either but I still prefer it.

 

[Jon Moody]

Thanks for the chart, I've always been pretty irritated that D'Addario and Circle K were the only string companies that had tension charts available. This gives me another one to compare to.

To be fair, it's not as easy as you think to get the information. There's a warehouse of strings, and cutting/measuring every single one takes a good deal of time (and inventory), so it's not something you can just run in and kick out in a week. We're looking into building one of the tension tables, so we can put it next to the QC area, and as they're pulling batches to check, string up a string and ensure tension is consistent.

There are probably other reasons too, why they haven't been out as of yet, but I'm not one to speculate.

Balanced tension didn't revolutionize my playing either but I still prefer it.

And that's great! Usually though, this topic is polarizing; you either have the "Balanced tension is the greatest thing ever that will make you play better than ever before!" on one side, or the "Traditional is the only true way, slackers!" on the other.

They can all talk about what one is superior all they want. While they do that, I'll do a couple gigs.

 

[KingRazor]

I'm also unique among bass players in a way since I actually prioritize feel over tone. There are basses I've played that sound great that I've put down because I didn't like how they felt to play. Then again, I'm easy to please tonally. I'll play anything that sounds like a P bass.

Speaking of GHS I really want to try some pressurewounds. I do wish they made a heavier B string, like around .140 or so. But I haven't even tried the .128 yet so I'll try it before knocking it.

 

[JustForSport]

Well...
After being in the machining industry and coatings industry (amongst others), I just assumed that any producer of this kind of thing (and pickups, also) had a chart for reference to check batches with as a requirement of quality control.
That's what I get for assuming, I guess...
But, due to the reviews on TB, PressureWounds are right around the corner to try.

 

[knuckle_head]

Most upright players - and classical musicians in general - don't care so much for the actual tension of a string as they do the tone. That's why you'll find many musicians in the classical world using 2 or more different brands of strings. It's about the tone, feel and how they speak under a bow. Tension has little to do with it for them.

If upright strings have consistent volume given consistent bowing/plucking technique they likely have very close to equal tension. The thing with an upright - even MORE critically than electric - is that it is dependent on downforce on the bridge to impart volume. The only way to regulate downforce is with tension. If you are a midi or piezo guy this is equally imortant to you as well.

 

[knuckle_head]

I have never met anyone who ever mentioned tension. That's what the truss rod is for.

Ask a player who is recovering from injury or has RSS. It matters - and may to you as you age.

 

[donn]

If upright strings have consistent volume given consistent bowing/plucking technique they likely have very close to equal tension.

Mostly fairly close, some very close. As you surmise, tension can have a noticeable effect on sound, different on different basses depending on construction and other variables - some may perform well with high tension strings, others with low tension.

The potential for hand injury is very significant, but here it's more complicated, as there's tension, elasticity and there's also a tendency to play differently depending on the string's tonal response, etc.

 

[megafiddle]

If upright strings have consistent volume given consistent bowing/plucking technique they likely have very close to equal tension. The thing with an upright - even MORE critically than electric - is that it is dependent on downforce on the bridge to impart volume. The only way to regulate downforce is with tension. If you are a midi or piezo guy this is equally imortant to you as well.

The downward force from any string on an upright bass bridge is more than enough
to provide maximum transfer to the top. The extra volume from higher tension strings
is more due to the higher mass that goes along with it.

Unless there is an actual loss of contact between string and bridge, or bridge and top,
the coupling will be complete. With that break angle over both sides of the bridge, that
loss of contact simply isn't going to happen.

-

 

[knuckle_head]

The downward force from any string on an upright bass bridge is more than enough
to provide maximum transfer to the top. The extra volume from higher tension strings is more due to the higher mass that goes along with it.

Given like construction I have to disagree. Upright 5 string roundwound sets acquired from both TI and D'Addario mic'd out to be very similar to my balanced tension electric .136 sets. While mass may be a concern, I am convinced downforce must be as well given that mass is certainly quite different from string to string yet the downforce proves very consistent.

I cannot speak to gut . . . I don't make them and I don't use them.