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Upgrading to Bartolini MK5CBC pups - wiring options...

C

Cam777cam

Jul 9, 2007
15
0
#1
Hi all,

I have a 10yo Cort B5 and am looking at upgrading the Bart Mk1 pickups to a set of Bart Mk5CBCs (and the pre to the Bart NTMB).

However, looking at the wiring options for Dual Coil pickups with 4 conductor cables I note that there are different combinations - including series humbucking, parallel humbucking, and single coil (both 'outer' and 'inner').

I'm wondering if I'm going to notice much difference in tone between these combinations (and hence worth adding a switch for each pickup to swap combinations) or are they essentially variations on the same tone and hence not worth the extra switching effort?

Given the Cort has a mahogany body (and hence currently a fairly dark / muffled tone) I'm wondering if any of these settings would brighten it up a bit and add clarity?

Also wondering how the existing pups would have been wired?

Any comments or experience would be great! Also any feedback on this sort of mod and anyones experience with it - or other 'better' options I could consider.

Thanks,
Cameron.
 
#3
A humbucker wired in series tends to be stronger in the midrange/low midrange. Parallel will give a brighter tone which is more like a single coil, and is somewhat lower in volume. Single coil will be the most open sounding, but that comes with the cost of added hum. I have a series/single/parallel switch on my Rapture 5's Q-tuner BL-5 and use series about 90% of the time. Sometimes I'll use parallel if I'm wanting a bit more of a "hi-fi" sound. Single coil mode sounds nice and clear, more "focused" if you will, but the hum makes it undesirable in most situations.
 
#4
Thanks guys - this is really useful.

Is it worth wiring the two pickups so that they can be switched individually (ie one paralell and one in series) - or is this overkill and not particularly useful (ie better to always use the same on both pickups). I have a balance pot to vary the signal between the two...

Thanks,
Cameron.
 
#5
It really depends on the tone that you like. 12Bass's description of how each sounds was pretty spot on though I'd like to add that single soil mode is slightly more punchy and growly than parallel. I personally, can do without parallel mode but that's just me. However, I will say that parallel mode does works nicely with mahogany bodies to balance the darker tone of the wood.
 
#6
Cam777cam said:
Thanks guys - this is really useful.

Is it worth wiring the two pickups so that they can be switched individually (ie one paralell and one in series) - or is this overkill and not particularly useful (ie better to always use the same on both pickups). I have a balance pot to vary the signal between the two...
Click to expand...

You can connect 2 switches temporarily (without drilling the holes on the bass body, like switches hangin out of control cavity) then try and hear the possible switching options. Then you can decide what is necessary what is not. You can do this before installing the preamp. But be careful while trying this, don't short any wires.



Cam777cam said:
Any comments or experience would be great! Also any feedback on this sort of mod and anyones experience with it - or other 'better' options I could consider.
Click to expand...

You're gonna need to fill the existing pickup mounting screw holes. Because MK1s have 2 screws MK5s have 3.

Also, you can think about installing a preamp bypass (active/passive) switch. Probably as a push/pull volume pot.

Another option is SGD Lutherie Pickups:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358989
Listen to the sound samples in that thread to have an idea.

Also see these threads:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=639486
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365318
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399594
 
#7
For switching two pickups, a single DPDT (double pole, double throw) switch won't do many options for a pair of pickups. You could do coil splitting for both pickups (from parallel humbucking or series humbucking to single coil, but only one coil choice). I have a Tele wired that way--the volume push-pull pot splits the bridge and neck humbuckers from humbucking series to single coil--both at the same time.

For two pickups to have parallel-series switching, you'd need a DPDT for each pup. Or the on-on-on DPDT mentioned by Kwesi, that'll do series/parallel/single coil.

There are 4PDT (on-on-on) switches out there, but they're going to be pretty large. If you have a large electronics cavity, it'll probably fit. Make sure to look up the drawing before buying. You can get such a beast from Mouser, Digikey, Newark--that type of place. Oh--you can get the Dimarzio brand from just about anywhere, including Amazon. $30 though. Ouch.

And keep in mind, that will switch both pickups the same way at the same time. It's like two DPDT on-on-on switches being ganged together with one switch.

You could also use a rotary switch. There are a good many kinds out there. You can probably find one that will fit in a pot hole. Again, space in the cavity is an issue. These aren't small parts. A 4-pole, 3-position rotary switch would accomplish the same thing as the 4PDT or 4P3T toggle. Again, this will switch both pups the same way at the same time--no independent switching without two switches!

I would also agree with the series-parallel thing being useful. Series will give you a loud, warm sound. There's more series inductance with the coils in series (duh), so there's more high-end rolloff. The parallel mode puts the inductances in parallel and consequently reduces the overall inductance. But parallel gives lower voltages than series, so it's quieter. These are good options to have. Two pickups blended with each in parallel humbucking mode can be good for slap.

Single-coil mode can be good, too. Make sure to use complementary coils on the two pups if you go this route so that they'll be humbucking when blended.
 
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#8
Hi guys,

Thanks for all this - I think I'll look into two seperate switches - one per pup and see how this works out. Better check what's available locally and their sizes...

I also like the idea of the Active / Passive control - and thought that the NTMB came in a configuration with a push / pull volume pot to switch between this... Will have to check again...

Thanks also for the links!

KWESI, I noted in one of the threads that you were looking at replacements for the MK1s? Did you ever get round to replacing them? How did it go?

Thanks,
Cameron.
 
#9
Hi guys,

Just to let you know that I've just placed an order for both the Bart Mk5CBCs and the Bart NTMB pre. They'll take a couple of weeks to arrive - but will update you with my thoughts when they arrive.

- Cam.
 
#10
Just reviewing this as the pickups are due soon and I need to get the switches... So some more questions...

Firstly, just confirming that the ‘complementary’ single coils on the two pups (so that they'll be humbucking when blended) are both the outer (or inner) together?

Looking again at the wiring options it appears that I have 4 (standard) possible options but only able to (practically) support 3!

The four useful options are;
1. Series Humbucking
2. Parallel Humbucking
3. Outer Singles
4. Inner Singles

Based on what you’ve already suggested I will definitely go for the Series Humbucking (1).

It also appears that the ‘Outer Singles (3)’ should give a ‘J’ bass like sound (based on the pickup wiring diagrams Bartolini supply)? If so, then I’ll probably go with this option. Anyone have any thoughts or confirm this?

So, should I go for either the Parallel Humbucking or the ‘Inner Singles’? Which will give me the most different (but useable) sound from the chosen two?

Bartolini suggests that the ‘Inner Singles’ will give a ‘fuller tone with more mids than the outer singles’ – and your writeups suggest the parallel humbucking will be more ‘HiFi’ (ie more treble and less mids). I’m probably not so interested in the HiFi – so probably the ‘Inner Singles’ option is looking good. Mmmm… maybe I’ve just answered my own question!

So, the following is looking good…
1. Series Humbucking
2. Outer Singles
3. Inner Singles

Any thoughts or comments? Thanks!
 
#11
Hi all,

A final update on this pickup wiring - as I've just completed the installation. I'm really happy with the switching options as they do deliver a change in sound - however, at this stage I must say that I prefer the sound on the humbucker setting. More power and a very full sound!
As I changed both the preamp (Bart NTMB5.2) and the pickups at the same time - I can't really comment on the impact that each component made separately - however, I am very happy with the improvement in the tone. There is a much stronger and clear improvement in the bass end. Previously, I had to fiddle the 'bass' knob all the time to try to get more bottom end but just got a 'washed out' sort of sound. Now it is a much more solid sound. The mids both really punch a solid sound and the treble is much more 'musical' - ie not just boosting the highs. I can play with the EQ flat on the bass now because the sound is much more balanced. All in all - I'm really happy! My hunch would be that changing the preamp has made the biggest difference - however these pickups also really deliver!

Finally, the push / pull on the preamp to invoke 'active' / 'passive' mode also works a treat. I'm happy!

Thanks all for your help.
Cameron.
 
#13
Cney said:
Sorry to dig up this old thrad. i probably not going to get an answer.
But the diagram for parallel-singlecoil-series wiring is not working. i have tried others.
The bartolini wiring left me with one of the dual coils option not working

anyone have the same issue?
Click to expand...

Double check your wiring, the diagrams are correct and work fine. You are using a Bartolini pickup, right?
 

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