Search For The Killer B's

Well I think you've already discovered 2 of the main things that I think make a great b-string. Neck-thru construction with quality woods and the longer the scale the tighter and better low B IMHO of course.
So I don't see any retrofit fixes that might apply, sorry.
Dirk

Based on a sample of one 34", two 35"s and one multiple scale with a 36" B, scale length seems be be the biggest factor to my ears. The neck through 35" sounds a little better than the bolt on 35" but the neck through
36" is the first one where I didn't feel like the low notes on the B sounded like they came from a different instrument than everything else. I guess I have no secrets for retrofitting to get a good sound. I'm glad you're getting a great sound at 34.5". Does anybody feel like string gauge is a big factor?

Scale length. Stabillity of the woods.


And dont forget the strings your using


I find Prosteels to have the best tension for me. I use a .115 for my B string, on a 36-34 fanned fret and the thing is very solid.

I agree with the scale length crowd. My Carvin 6 string sound absolutely incredible from the E string up. The B, not so much. My BTB 5 (35") low B sounds great. And everything else about the build of the BTB isn't really as nice as the Carvin.



Edit to add: After reading further posts by much more experienced guys than me, I fear that my experience was much too narrow to have commented in the way that I did. Carry on.

it's ALL about STIFFNESS and careful wood selection. period.

I've built numerous 34" and 35" 5-string bolt-ons, and all had killer B's. What's more significant is that I've also used my same construction methods to build a 33" scale 6-string bolt-on that repeatedly is commented as being the most comfortable 35" scale fretless that the potential client has ever played. They are certain it's a 35" scale because the B is so solid and robust ... and I get to continuously enjoy that puzzled look of "oh no! I've just discovered that I've been suckered into believing that a 35"/36" scale is mandatory for a killer B ... it has to be true because I read it on the internet and all those guitar store sales guys repeat it as fact ... and yet that tape measure I just saw laid on this neck clearly reads 33" from nut to bridge saddle "

the secret is clearly a very stiff neck (but not so stiff it becomes non-adjustable via a trussrod) and good wood selection.

for the record, here's a few "killer B" myths that are clearly busted based on my personal building experience, and confirmed by the players who use my instruments in the studio and on stage:

- neck-thru is required

- 35"/36" scale is required

- thru-body stringing is required

- more than three woodscrews are required


and I do agree that string selection is key in assuring a comfortable playing B-string

all the best,

R

wsmerwin@hotmai said:

Can somebody explain to me what makes a low B string sound musical ? I bought a WATSON 5-string 34.5" scale neck-through bass [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and the B string is incredible (clear, rich, musical; a note, not a thud or other garbage) even through my Samick BA50. Better yet, how can I get my other guitars B string to sound like the WATSON ?

Luthier Alex Watson replied to my question with this:

"The carbon fiber, multi-laminated necks, along with the choice of woods we use, certainly contribute to the low B sound that you like so much. Not many builders use our technique on the core of their instruments. No amount of electronics can enhance your low B if the instrument doesn’t do it naturally."

I'd enjoy hearing from anyone who has succeeded in converting a dull lifeless B string into a sonic wonder, or has an opinion about building a better extended range instrument and mastering the B string.

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I've had way too much experience in this arena (and I have the ebay scars to prove it ! ).

Over time, I've found that the choice of strings has an enormous impact on how clear and focused the B string is. I have a Mike Lull M5V that I almost got rid of because I couldn't get the focus and continuity of tone I was looking for. I finally tried a set of MTD strings, and it snapped right into place! Likewise, I hadn't been satisfied with my Nordy vJ5 until I used a wound (not taper) Dean Markley .130 B. Suddenly the B "spoke" properly.

Of my seven 5-string basses (time to sell a couple), all but two of them have different string brands and/or gauges. Yeah, it's a bit bothersome to go through the trial-and-error process. But for me at least, the results are every bit as good as the $200 setup!

YMMV!

- Greg

A good thread. I have been told many times that my 34 scale "B" strings are great. Now I have a customer that wants a 32" 5 string so I am going to see how that goes. By the way most of mine are strung with DR High beams.

All right then, what would be a good set for my Ibby 406? It currently has XL's which (don't kill me) were bought two New Years ago. Kinda flops around even with a fairly high action.

DerHoggz said:

All right then, what would be a good set for my Ibby 406? It currently has XL's which (don't kill me) were bought two New Years ago. Kinda flops around even with a fairly high action.

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I like DR strings, but I'd recommend Lo Beams, which are wound on a hex core (this is typical). Their tension will seem greater than Hi Beams (which are wound on a round core).

Try a wound B string instead of taper-core. That has helped me improve the feel and focus of a couple of my 5's.

- Greg

Long scale length. Good construction. Good material choice. That should do you.

I guessing you can have only some of those "factors" and still have a great B string, but I feel that they all contribute in their own special way

wsmerwin@hotmai said:

I don't believe scale length is a factor when a 34.5 inch string sounds as good as (if different from) a 37 inch string. The Dingwall Afterburner has a bolt on, flat sawn, Rock Maple neck with dual truss rods; the Watson is a five piece neck throught the body made from Wenge and Purpleheart with Hawaiian Koa veneer between laminations, with carbon fiber reinforcement and a single truss rod. All are, I agree, are factors in creating the sound of the 'killer B' but I am trying to learn it's root cause. Is it stiffness ? Is it wood density ? Is it the connection of the string to the body ?

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A quick correction. Afterburners do have a 37" scale length, but only have one truss rod and feature five piece necks in maple or bubinga, sometime walnut. There are no carbon fiber rods in the Afterburner series.

I thought this was an Anthrax album discussion thread.

I have whats considered a cheap bass (even though i'm impressed with the build quality and playability) made by Jay Turser. The B was never really well defined until I tried a set of Protones strings. Frankly, I was amazed. All my basses will eventually have them.

wsmerwin@hotmai said:

The single (not dual) truss rod in the Afterburner is Pressure Fit, Double Expanding, and Single Acting; and the neck on the Afterburner is One-Piece Flat-Sawn Hard Rock Maple according to the web site. The Watson has the carbon fiber rods (not the Dingwall) and a five piece laminated neck.

My point was that different construction and scale lengths made for similar results (a solid "musical" B string), so scale length didn't appear to be a determining factor in the sound of the B string.

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Afterburners have 5 piece necks.

Dirk Diggler said:

Well I think you've already discovered 2 of the main things that I think make a great b-string. Neck-thru construction with quality woods and the longer the scale the tighter and better low B IMHO of course.
So I don't see any retrofit fixes that might apply, sorry.
Dirk

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I think this is a common misconception. There are a number of really great 34" scale bolt on basses with a really great tight B string. Alleva-Coppolo and Sadowsky come to mind first but there are many others you could add to that list.

This is such a soup of opinions that I usually try to stand clear, but I will say that, having looked at spectrum analysis of different scale lengths, it is pretty clear that lower fundamentals become much more prominent when the scale length is increased. Many variables, test imperfection, blah blah, yeah.

Is that necessarily a good thing? Do we even really want that fundamental? Does that fundamental make a B-string sound better or worse? Can our amplification reproduce it? All a matter of opinion/wallet size.

The feel of the string is an entirely different thing, but I don't think it's fair to call the correlation between scale length and the sound of a B string a misconception. Otherwise we'd all be playing Stratocasters with .235" B-strings.

I think it's a factor, not the factor.

We've experimented with all increments between 34" and 37", but have really focused on 35" and 37". Here's what we've found. We also have the luxury of being able to deal directly with string designers and manufacturers as well as design and manufacturer our own pickups so we're slowly getting a feel for what affects what.

Neck stiffness affects the string feel and tone. Floppy necks make the strings feel looser. Stiffer necks add clarity and focus to the B. You can make a neck stiffer with carbon fiber, stiffer woods, thicker dimensions etc.

Scale length to my ears affects harmonics. Shorter scales make it more difficult for the string to flex easily in the upper harmonics, damping them. This also results in the upper harmonics being further and further out of tune, with more energy dumped into the lower harmonics resulting in a warmer, thicker, denser tone. The attack is faster and with lighter strings the pitch rises more on the attack.

Longer scales allow more room for the upper harmonics to develop, they'll be more in tune, which is very noticeable when plugged into a tuner. The tone to my ears is more full-range, open and transparent. The attack is a little slower with less pitch rise. In general, you can play further up the neck without the notes warbling.

To be fair we've spent over a decade dialing in our strings for the 37" B, so they are pretty dialed in. However I have to assume that all the other string manufacturers have spent a good amount of time tweaking their strings for a 35" B so our comparisons are as accurate as I think you can get at this point.

To sum up: scale length is important, string design is important, neck construction is important, pickups are important, setup is important, body woods are important.

You can tweak one ingredient to compensate for the other and get good results, but in the end, why not tweak all of the ingredients to the max?