Dr. DIMENTO'S ONGOING "HB" STYLE PUP EXPERIMENT

This will likely be the catch-all category for humbuckers (any HB not MM, Soap, or J-shaped)


Unless noted otherwise, all trials are fingerpick, using the 4-string bass specified with TI JF 344's run direct out (no pots) into a 2000 Polytone Mini Brute V with settings remaining flat - unless noted otherwise. If two pups then ran direct out true stereo into seperate channels of the Poly. I've ran pups through various rigging and the charactistics of the pup follow it just as the acoustic tone inherent in a bass follows it. My standard pup setting is as high as they'll go without driving the strings into them, maximum 1/8." Pups mounted in standard J neck and bridge position. Pups wired in series. Also all are played to the same tunes in the following styles: Reggae, blues, country, Rock - some Jazz, 60's R&B, and Latin, with a few Stanley Clarke riffs thrown in solo.


These pups were run in the following order:

Page 1

GIBSON EBO (passive single wire with shield)

SEYMOUR DUNCAN RICKENBACKER - BRIDGE IN BRIDGE POSITION(SRB-1B/SRB-1N)

GIBSON EBO "HB" & BARTOLINI 9K-L1 "J" (both single lead with ground)

SEYMOUR DUNCAN RICKENBACKER - BRIDGE MID POSITION
(SRB-1n, SRB-1b)

GIBSON EBO NECK / DIMARZIO DP 126 “P”

G&L L-2000's (neck and bridge 1 5/8" x 3 3/4")

BARTOLINI RICKENBACKER (6RS/6RC)


Page 2

SCHALLER DOUBLE J QUAD

DEARMOND STARFIRE HB - MID POSITION

RICKENBACKER ORIGINAL 70's 4001 (see "J" pup experiment)

RICKENBACKER SIDE BY SIDE SOLO COMPARISON (ORIGINAL 70'S RIC 4001's / DUNCAN SRB-1B/SRB-1N / BARTOLINI 6RS/6RC)

RIC SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON SOLO TONE II

RIC SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON TO MUSIC

PEAVEY T-40 HB

DEARMOND STARFIRE HUMBUCKER (Bridge position)

BARCUS BERRY HUMBUCKER

Dimarzio X2N-B


so far
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GIBSON EBO (passive single wire with shield)

Loaded into the acoustically midrange flatpick bass. Logical choice I thought since the pole spacing of the pup is only 5/8" center to center. Barely was able to get the strings centered over the poles even with the Schaller rollers moved all the way in on the E & G strings. The pup was run between the standard EBO base of the neck position and center position due to the design of the bass. Had I known I'd end up finger picking, I'd have loaded it in another bass that would allow a more standard orientation.

Volume about 33% better than average. No flatpick transfer (or fingers) through the pups of consequence. No hum. This is a pup with BIG sound and definitely on the muddy side - which only enhances the sense of volume that seems to come from everywhere at once. You hear it and you feel it. Add to it that the best tone came from digging in and you just had to have been there. Heavy on the lower half of the frequency range. You can accent a different range of tone but not extend it much, for example brighten it up by cutting the low end. Struggled thru half the tunes flatpicking till I tried fingerpicking and it was a change that worked. Don't know if it's the pup or my rigging but using a flatpick didn't work. But the change transformed the process from boredom to the enjoyment that it's supposed to be.

You could pretty much get from jug bass to J bass (passable mid range J). Took a while to figure out the combination but once done, only minor adjustments (excluding Reggae - good Reggae tone) were needed to work it to about 90% of the tunes. Some tunes I replayed to fingerpicking just to double check. But unless you're playing one style of music, you won't be adjusting this pup at the beginning of a set and leaving it that way. For tones that worked to music: volume, sensitivity, tone, cut and clarity were fairly even across the board, that is the bass relative to itself. Tone is definitely on the muddy side so not a pup to choose if you want Hi-fi.

I ran the pup through the Bart NTMB and it cleaned up the mud considerably but by that time I'd grown accustomed to it so the Bart didn't last long. Pretty sterile without the mud and it lost a good chunk of the raw tone. Volume was also reduced considerably with the preamp. I'd imagined some useable tones could be pulled using a preamp but my quota for turning knobs had already been exceeded, and I was already having fun. For sure, not a solo pup of choice though.

An interesting pup to me and I wonder if it will strike similarly the next time I play it

SEYMOUR DUNCAN RICKENBACKER - BRIDGE IN BRIDGE POSITION(SRB-1B/SRB-1N)

4 wire plus ground Humbucking pups.

Not really what I had in mind for this category but due to the atypical mounting bracket on the bridge pup, highly unlikely I will pick up another set of Ric pups cause these basses have gotten all the routing they're getting.

Long story but the bridge pup was mounted roughly 1/2" from the bridge and not the typical mid position. Initially I had placed the neck pup at mid position to at least obtain the proper spatial relationship between the pups but even with the Schaller rollers moved all the way in, the small neck pup wouldn't adequately read the E string. So after 1/5 of the tunes, I moved the neck pup as far as the routing would allow - little less than an inch from the neck end. Seemed the pups in combination actually sounded better with the neck pup at mid position but it was fairly useless there.

Loaded into the acoustically bright bass. Output was probably 33% better than average. No hum. There was considerably finger transfer on the D & G strings as well as brightness, both of which may be attributable to the bridge position of the pup. Both were ameliorated by cutting treble, moving up the neck, and digging in a little which helped get me through most tunes acceptably.

The pups produced considerable variation in tone and I could go from P to J, dark to bright but the pups favored a Jazz tone. Noticeably punchy, powerful tones. The most powerful bridge pup I've played through so far. Could easily stand alone if it weren't for the bright trebles. If anything, it would be the neck pup that needed assistance. Nice bulge on E & A strings. Some growl. Good bottom end and mids but trebles could be hard to manage. Tended to be either too bright or trebles would become bland or fade when adjusted. Volume, sensitivity, tone, clarity, and cut were even across the board. The pups are definitely more sensitive and clear than most pups. Not a Hi-fi clear like Barts, but just as clear with pleasant mid overtones - more natural sounding.

Pups played well to most all the tunes with treble adjustment required to fit the tune. Not a bad Reggae. And most sounds that played to music weren't bad solo. Didn't use a preamp as I'd pretty much had my fill of adjusting knobs.

Pretty decent overall - probably in the top 25% and somebody really needs to put these pups in another configuration so you wouldn't have to have a Ric to use them. I'd bet they'd sell a lot of pups.

GIBSON EBO "HB" & BARTOLINI 9K-L1 "J" (both single lead with ground)

Within the last week I read about some named artist that used an EBO with J bridge so I've been thinking about doing this for a few days. Installed in the acoustically midrange bass same as previous EBO experiment. Bart J installed in standard J bridge position. Output at least 25% above average. No hum. No finger transfer of consequence. Took forever to find the near killer tone but I expect it would work with 90% of the tunes, if not all of them, with minor adjustment. I played back through a couple of tunes to check but I'd be willing to bet this as versatile a tone as any. Not a solo sound and chords (or even double stops) sound like a wall of noise. No growl per se'.

For the choice sound the tone controls for both pups were roughly set at a 2 step cut from flat for bass, mid, treble with volume set at J-2, EBO-1. Most refinements were to treble or bass for whichever pup depending. Could increase the EBO tones to add mud or soften the mix or increase the Bart tone to add bass without mud, brighten up, or clean up the tone. A J-like tone with a humbucking bottom end overall. Solid bottom end but primarily a good spread of midrange and just enough on the top end to fill out the spectrum. Full, punchy tones across the board with a nice bulge on the E & A strings. Very sensitive to attack. Punch any string on any fret and it's like a 357 magnum shot through a piece of drywall. Volume, tone, clarity, and cut even across the board. The EBO pup is really a nice touch cause it works real well for those tunes where you want bass to be there to fill but you really don't want to hear it separately - and there are a lot of tunes like that depending on the style of play. So you can adjust that in where you need it.

In all, very impressive to me tonight.


FLUFF:

I wanted to install the Dimarzo DP 126 J but with the narrow string spacing required for the EBO, no way the strings would line up with the pole pieces in the Dimarzio. The Bart would work so the Bart it was, although I thought at the time it was a bit of an insult to each pup. Also I realized for the first time tonight that a big advantage of running these pups straight out the jacks is pup mixing is unlimited. No need to be concerned with impedance matching or even active or passive for that matter.


I really wanted to accent the EBO and use the J as a compliment, rather than the other way around, as I typically add just enough neck pup to beef up the bridge. I'd read about sOme named artist that used an EBO with J bridge so I wanted to play with that. And I wanted to stay away from just a modified Bart tone. The end result did not sound like Barts.

I really didn't think this would be a very impressive combination of pups and I was practically finished when I hit on the combo for this pair. It turned out to be an adjustment that I repeatedly see coming up lately - but I did everything else first. The preamps really cut volume and were of no benefit in the search. Don't know how they'd work with the choice setting but I'll check tomorrow for kicks and grins. But I can't wait to see if this sound strikes me the same tomorrow. Sometimes I end up jacking with suck tones for a couple hours so about anything playable sounds like the Grail incarnate.


ALWAYS UP FOR PUP SWAPS OR QUICK PURCHASE AT A GOOD PRICE

SEYMOUR DUNCAN RICKENBACKER - BRIDGE MID POSITION
(SRB-1n, SRB-1b)

4 wire w/ground humbucking


Loaded in an acoustically bright bass. Output at least 33% above normal and probably more like 45%. Little hum killed by touching strings. Noticeable finger transfer but nothing that was of much consequence. Haven’t reread my own review with the bridge at previous position but aside from more output, being noticeably darker, and less string transfer, the only other difference in the bridge pup seems there was some growl before but none this time. The neck pup last time seemed thin and useless in my recollection but this round it seemed just a little thin on the E and G strings but was by no means useless. Had decent output and I used it alone on several tunes – very good dark background bass tone. When cranked up a little had an interesting tubular quality to it. This round the pups seemed to work better together. I liked the tone of the bridge by itself at the bridge position installed previously but I recall string transfer making it practically useless mounted there. No bulge of any consequence on the E and A strings this round.

Definitely a broad variation in tones between use of the two pups. Could get J, P, and HB tone. Worked acceptably or better to all the tunes. I did notice having some trouble getting the mid to upper mid tone I wanted on a couple tunes – as in not getting it before moving on. No solo sounds noted from tones that worked to music. Not a big low end but adequate with good spread of mids as a rule and trebles could be adjusted as needed. Punchy across the board by digging in a little. Volume, sensitivity, tone, clarity, and cut seemed pretty even across the board except on softer tunes where the E & G strings were lacking a tad using the neck pup only. The neck pup could go dark but not muddy. Definitely more clarity as a pair than most pups. Had that Ric tone.

Ran an EMG BQS preamp to the bridge pup and the Bart NTMB to the neck pup. Definite volume drop but didn’t seem to affect tone adversely. Pups seemed to fit well with a preamp in the half dozen or so tunes I fired them up. The preamps may have worked out the mid issue mentioned previously but by the time the problem was established, I was move’n on.

Pretty versatile set of clear, cutting pups with plenty of output.


FLUFF:

Received some info from a guy that had some original Rics and he said the baseplate on the bridge could be removed. So I emailed Duncan and they emailed back in a couple days stating the same thing. So I removed it without a hitch. Made a baseplate out of wood veneer that would fit within the routing and mounted the bridge pup in mid position where it should be. So if you have any inclination to check out this pup, you can make use of it in many basses as it will drop into many HB routed spaces. The neck pup I again mounted as close to the neck as I could get it, about an inch away. Will have to measure but the neck pup looks about the same size as a P pup. Two of them in P position may be very interesting but they would definitely be fairly expensive. Also, I do have an inquiry out on TB to find out exactly how far off from standard Ric pup spacing I am.

GIBSON EBO NECK / DIMARZIO DP 126 “P”

Gibson humbucker single with ground / Dimarzio single coil 4 wire (2 wires each pup)

Ran across mention of someone trying an EBO in combo with a P pup so I thought I’d give it a try. The Dimarzio seemed appropriate enough but couldn’t get the strings centered due to the narrow poles on the EBO. Regardless, didn’t seem to effect tone.

Loaded in an acoustically bright bass. Leading edge of the EBO pup is roughly 9” from the 12 th fret and leading P pup is a little under 12” from some. Output a little greater than normal as played (EBO typical volume set at 1 or less). Consideable hum from the P pup killed by touching strings. Some pronounced finger transfer on the G string that required some finess with mids and treble boosted but was not an issue otherwise. Sensitivity to attack greater than average – could really get some punch even with the EBO volume minimize.

Two things that struck me most about this setup was getting an acceptable “J” tone and the broad variation in tones that can be pulled from it, even a slight adjustment can make considerable difference. I could practically zero out the bass and boost treble and mid and get a Fender-like "J" tone, even a tad of growl on D & G strings. Using just the P pup only I couldn't get the mid and top end of the sound without the bass falling out - and vice versa. For non-purist, this combo would probably due as a main bass. There was a quality to the bass tone when mixed that I can’t put a finger on but it was different and I could see where it could be that sound for some tunes that’s missing using other pups. Worked acceptably or better to all tunes. Volume, sensitivity, clarity, and cut even across the board although the E string would start to drop out when bass was severely cut – no surprise.

Not much else to say – just a little fodder for any P guys wanting to expand on what they’ve got without loosing what they’ve got. Which is to say, if you like P's and are thinking about assembling a bass with more tone options, some kind of HB at the bridge may not be a bad way to go.

fremenblue said:

I've got a Dimarzio X2N-B humbucker that's going in the bridge position on my Fender '57 Precision RI bass, Baddass bridge, Dimarzio Willpower Middle (P) pickups, two volume/no tone pots, passive, and a Moses graphite neck to boot. The X2N-B supposedly puts out over 500 mV, the Willpower is a more demure (in comparison) 175 mV. I should have the bass back from my luthier in a week or so, let ya know how that came out.

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Sounds interesting - especially wondering how well the pups will function independently.

Everything goes in spells it seems but soaps appear less than most. I have a pair of Status soaps coming and there was a pair of Lane Poor soaps on ebay that were reasonable but they were 5/6ers and were 4.65" long!

The piece about the EMG soap/P's is interesting. The EMG PJ's I ran have more bright than I need but I doubt the P was the source (Which reminds me, I never ran the EMG P in the standard P position - maybe tonight). Too much bright is not a problem as long as it can be cut without adversely affecting tone. Seems the main problem I run into with trebles is either not enough top end, getting excessive finger transfer at the treble level I want, or a treble tone that just doesn't work.

Appreciate the feedback. I've done my time through graduate school but at times it seems I'm learning more about uncontrolled variables than pickups. In the end it's so subjective anyway but you never know what will be of use to someone. I'm doing it anyway so may as well post it, facts and follies all. Plus it gives me a record for reference.

I have yet to followup on flatwounds thoughts about some of the soaps and P's being the same coils but I did load the EMG P's into a bass and played it some. The P's will go through the roof on highs after all - at least in terms of finger transfer. Your string noise comment was interesting. Not sure if you're refering to finger transfer there or not but regardless there are some pups that definetly produce a "string noise" that compliments play.

I guess I'm going to have to pick up a Sadowsky pre and check it out. I had an OBP 1 ran as an outboard and wasn't impressed so I can definetly see where a variation would be noticeable there. The Bart NTBT I found to be a pretty decent 2 band.

G&L L-2000's (neck and bridge 1 5/8" x 3 3/4")

4 wire with ground HB's (basically earless looking MM pups with adjustable allen screw pole centers)

Loaded into an acoustically midrange bass set within 1/2" of standard L-2000 spacing - little closer at neck and further at bridge. Output on high side - roughly 33% above average. No hum. Sensitivity to attack average or better - fluctuates with settings. Sustain about average. Finger/pic transfer could be an issue if treble is boosted but what little problem it posed for me was resolved adequately with changing the angle of attack.

Basically a big, full HB style sounding J tone. Many times in playing the pups they struck me as having a refined 80's/90's cleaness to them yet played well to earlier styles. Ample low end with a fairly even frequency distribution overall. More top than I need but it could be toned down without problem and mids could be boomie but cutting them cleaned that up. Depending on the control settings and tuned played to, the pups could go from a rich clear J tone to leaning to a darker dirty EB-0 like tone - though that paints a decieving picture of sound variations available as the difference actually seemed more like a variation of the same sound. The pups seemed to have their own sound and didn't nail any of the standard J, P, MM, Ric, EB-0, etc. tones but played well to tunes incorporating such sounds.

The pups tended to play to about everything out of a few different settings and tweaking knobs didn't make much difference. The pups weren't very user friendly - worked well out of those settings but otherwise I kind of felt like I was in no man's land searching for a tone. I wouldn't completely rule-out the possibility of some hidden tones that I just didn't hit the combination on. Guess I'll know with more time on the water. Technique and positioning also seemed to have less effect on varying tone than usual. Not much flexibility in mid adjustment.

Not much rawness to them aside from a mild to moderate crunch that's apparent in most settings. Some bulge, crunch, and punch with the pups but didn't get much growl. Volume, sensitivity, tone, clairty, and cut fairly even across the board with capability through adjustments to fade the D & G strings if desired.

Played acceptably or better to all but a couple of tunes. Potential for some solo sounds as there's a tubular quality to the tone apparent solo but that pretty much fades into the mix in playing to tunes. Ample output to use the pups independently but really didn't find a tone of any use from the neck. Bridge worked fine alone the few times I used it that way.

FLUFF:

Oringinally I wired these with a pup select switch with options of both pups series HB, inside coils of each pup, and outside coils of each pup (which are singles in HB mod). I was not impressed with the results as the sounds were not different enough to make a difference so I chucked the switch. Current G&L's have pup select of neck, bridge, or both and that I could do with the amp. I think the older models had single coil options but they were noisey in that mode. G&L's also offer series/parallel switching for each pup but that I can also pull from the amp.

Better late than never. Been a while since I posted here myself. Always good to hear feedback on pups - particularly ones I haven't had.

BARTOLINI RICS (6RS/6RC)


2 wire single split coil neck - 4 wire w/ground bridge HB

A single thrown in the mix but the SD Rics are here so close enough.

Loaded into an acoustically bright bass. Output average or better. Definitely more output than any Bart set I've had excluding HB pairs. Noticeable hum killed by touching strings (I assume they'd be quiet I employed a typical wiring scheme). Sensitivity to attack average. Better than average sustain. No finger/pic transfer of consequence and they worked well with a pick.

Haven't had a set of original Rics yet so no comparison there but I'd guess maybe a Bart version of it - they sound like Barts with typical Bart characteristics. If you like Barts, I wouldn't hesitate to stick these in a custom/modified bass instead of Bart J's or MM's (at least if was acoustically bright). Rounded, soft tones in general. Common Bart-like clarity but they could be clouded up. Low and mid range strong with a soft top. Flexible useable midrange. Didn't use the neck pup as a stand alone but it was a thinner/cleaner neck pup than most (even when placed in it's initial location) and could probably be used as such. The bridge HB could be used alone, although I didn't play it as such either.

Not use to the pups yet but some trouble getting all ranges (bass, mid, treble) to suit taste. Sometimes tone was good but the spread on the frequencies was lacking - not getting the frequencies to accent where desired. Quite a bit of jumping around on controls but I suspect that will level out when I'm used to them. I anticipated having to fight brightness off rather than having to fight to get it.

Volume, tone, sensitivity, clarity, and cut even across the board. Could thin or fatten the low end as needed. Responded well to technique/position variations to alter tone. Got some nice midrange J variations and decent P tone. Nice bulge on E & A strings, punch or thud depending on settings. Some growl. Noticeable rawness. Worked well to all tunes. Marginal solo tones.

The most appealing Barts to date in my recollection.

FLUFF:
This is the first run on these pups so still getting a feel and I'll update it as indicated. I was reluctant about loading these into a bright bass but that was most convenient at the time. To my knowledge typical 4001 Ric spacing is 7 3/4" and 13" from the 12th fret to the leading edge of the pups (although it may be to center), 1" closer than I can go to the neck. So I shifted it down an inch and tone was too boxy. Shifted it a couple times and ended up with 10 3/4" and 13 3/4" from 12th fret to pup centers, which sounded workable - and it was.

Update: I have recently found out the neck pup is a 6RS not 6RT which is a full range singel coil rather than a full range split coil.

First I've seen of that setup. Not too bad on the pole/string spacing either. Spacing is so narrow on the EB-O's it makes for a bit of pain in use with other exposed pole pups.

I sold mine. Because of the single poles, there's no flexibility in location cause the poles loose the strings the further it's moved towards the bridge. Even with the lateral adustment I have on the Schaller roller bridge. I would have liked to have heard it in a typical MM position. EB-O's a different kind of sound for a fact, I see quite a few of them around, and they're always on ebay. So they're getting their share of use.

74rickbass said:

I have no problem with pole spacing. I dont know why you had to change much with your bridge, mine works pretty good.

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It works becuase its against the neck. If you moved it where the P pup is and bent the strings you'd have volume drop. You might even have volume drop where it is using only the EB-O pup. I don't remember. That's why Leo implemented bi-poles and (in part) made the MM slugs so wide using only single poles.