Double Bass Feedback issues, please help!

I did my first gig with the RS2 on Friday. It went into a Fishman ProEQ (the older model) and an SWR WM12 amp. The phase switch was helpful in controlling feedback...one way it fed back, the other way it didn't.

Something that helps with focus is to wrap a piece of thick velcro around the afterlenth of the strings, a bit away from the bridge. That cuts out ringing and keeps the strings from resonating there. A piece of dense foam under the tailpiece can also control resonant feedback, but it also cuts out some of the bass's character.

I noticed that if I played too hard, the sound was "plucky," to use a bandmates's term.

I recently had a problem with feedback that I've been able to get under control. I snaked a piece of foam rubber through the string afterlengths as suggested by tornadobass. In addition to that I took the advice of another T'ber and put foam rubber in the f-holes. This has really helped cut down on the feedback induced by sympathetic vibration from other instruments -drums for the most part.

Are you playing with your cab on the floor? If so, you may want to try a couple of milk crates or something similar to decouple the cab especially since you say you have to cut lows to control the feedback.

Hope this helps,
S

As much as it can be a logistics nightmare, I find that getting the amp out in front of the bass (or at least alongside you) is key. Obviously, close room boundaries and other acoustic factors can also be an issue, but it's really all about having the amplified sound affect the bass' body as little as possible.

At one point in time when I was gigging with a louder ensemble I actually used a separate amp feeding a stand monitor so I could hear myself accurately. My amp was as close to the edge of the stage and/or on the opposite side of the bandstand in order to get the volumes required before feedback.

I also find that "tone" can be the first thing to go as volumes increase, especially if you reach levels that begin to overwhelm the amp's speakers ability to play cleanly. One can only hope for PA support before you reach that point.

My practice is to develop a set of "reference tone settings" for my gear, and write them down, so I know that I am starting from a good, safe, and familiar place. Room/stage observations contribute to me making slight adjustments to lows and highs, to compensate for boominess or treble-absorbing conditions.

As far as pickups go, they are obviously all a compromise when compared with a microphone, but I can recommend the Full Circle, too.

Hello,
I have used a realist for 3 or 4 years without any feedback issues (various amps including a polytone). The pickup has worked well in loud situations like bigbands and folky stuff. I think your right hand technique have A LOT to with your amplified sound. I would suggest working on your right hand pizz technique by using the weight of your arm (not finger) to pull the notes out of the bass and striking the string with the side of your index finger, not the tip. I have found using the whole arm and side of the index finger gives much more volume as well as more tone. If your tone is clear and your volume is strong, you won't need the amp as much. Good luck.

PS: I enjoyed your music on your myspace page.

make sure the cord going from the element to the jack is not pig tailed (cork screwed). It should be a "s" turn looking head on and a straight line when viewed from the side.

Torquing the cord can preload the element a bit and make it excited.

It should have come with an after length dampener as well that can help better basses at loud volumes...see here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3423099&postcount=252

Lewis7789 said:

Has anyone tried a magnetic pup like this one? Link Removed I know it won't sound nearly as realistic but I'm tired of having to mess with everything to be able to play shows with my DB. I set up my amp next to me, not directly behind me, adjust all the EQ with my preamp and the phase switch. I spend half my setup time tweaking my DB preamp and pup so it doesn't howl. Then I have to keep tilting the bass during quiet parts while I'm not playing (which looks really silly onstage. Like I'm doing a really slow version of the robot dance). I almost wish I kept my Palatino URB...

I really just want a simple pup that will sound decent and WON'T FEEDDBACK!

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It sounds like the room your playing in is one of those really difficult places to get a good sound in, that we have to play on occasion. I have an old Schaller mag pickup on my backup bass, that I use for outdoor and insanely loud gigs. I've heard a lot of people on TBDB badmouth mag pickups, but IMO this is a damn good sounding pickup. It's not a Full Circle, but your audience won't know the difference, and it's a lot more resistant to feedback (however, you can make it feedback). I don't know what you have for strings on your bass, but you will need steel strings with the Schaller. I've got Spirocore Weichs on mine. Good luck with your quest.

A good resonant acoustic instrument is what we all say we want.

Better resonance = more acoustic volume = more feedback when amped

Mixed purposes. So when we get a better sounding DB, we automatically get worse feedback problems when amped. It makes EUBs sound like a reasonable solution. About the last thing on my GAS list is a Clevinger, but it is definitely on the list. Particularly when the other best solution seems to be a magnetic pup. Once upon a time there was this guy named Leo Fender who had a novel idea..... Perhaps he wasn't the first. Talk about full circles. And I don't mean Fishy ones either. So here we are again. And Feedback is the epitome of the full circle. It's more like the dragon regurgitating its own tail. So what to do? When it gets loud or I look at the rest of the band and no one else but the drummer has hollow shells, I tend to think, "Better bring the EBG for this one." Bummer! But it has to be at least 75% of the EBG's raison d'etre. 100% for the EUB.

Room effects are usually concentrated at a certain frequency. If one can find that frequency and suppress it, most of the feedback will go away. Think 30 band EQ. Post EQ Direct out. On my DB, the feedback is almost always right around 125 Hz. Co-incidentally, and not surprisingly, this is the same note as my DB's cavity (Helmholz) resonance (close to middle C). A parametric midrange EQ can help. Put a full cut on the mids and sweep the peak to find where it works. Better is something like the sweepable -18 notch filter like on the AI amps. If you have time to work with a sound man (and he isn't an unsound man) and if the sound system does have a 30 band graphic EQ, then you can try killing different frequencies to find the culprit. Usually this will only have to be done once. Some rooms will require different approaches.

The isolation pad under your cab is next to useless for eliminating feedback. It will help keep items on the stage from jumping around, but you could do more by putting the same pad under your endpin. Still, it will not be doing much. The soundwaves are traveling through the air. You may as well try playing in a vacuum. That would work. Of course then there would be no sound at all.

While everything that everyone has posted here might help a little (this applies to my suggestions as well), what we all know but just don't want to say is that our instruments do best with other acoustic instruments played unplugged. When it gets electric, go with the current. It's much harder to swim upstream.

Lewis7789: My $.02. I don't think the feed-back problem is in the pickup, cab, bass or room.

I've got a similar setup to you (Christopher carved bass, Revolution Solo, iamp500 with Whizzy 12) and my bass has never fed-back on itself.

Ive played some bad rooms and loud gigs too (played an afrobeat gig last week with my iamp cranked as a monitor and loud drums, 2 percussion, 3 horns, 2 guitars and keys crammed on stage).

With respect to compression, my feeling is that it worsens feedback.

As you've played electric bass for 12 years, you've no doubt solved the amplification problems for electric bass.
Double bass is a whole different kettle of fish!

Not standing in front of your amp is a good start, as is elevating it so that you can hear it better. Also don't stand in front of other loud amps/ drums/ etc.

eq: If i'm eqing too much, it's a sign that something else is wrong.

The final piece of the puzzle is developing an awareness of where in each room/ on each stage is the best spot for you to play.
Sometimes I set up in one corner and have my cab 6 feet away pointed at the audience.

If i'm hearing a bad sound, but band members and the audience like it... well sometimes thats the best you can do.

Hope this helps.

-Daniel Y

eroy said:

make sure the cord going from the element to the jack is not pig tailed (cork screwed). It should be a "s" turn looking head on and a straight line when viewed from the side.

Torquing the cord can preload the element a bit and make it excited.

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Eroy,

Can you please check if this is the way that the cord should be? (I used to have mine in a pig tail shape and just changed it)





By the way: don't get me wrong but you should really improve the instructions that come with the pickup. Every Rev. Solo user should have access to all the information possible to get the best sound out of their pickups (not only talkbassers).

David Santos

P.S. I attached a grounding wire looped around the RCA jack and tied it into my strings, as you said on another thread, and it really worked on reducing hum. Thanks!

Yeah David, that looks text book perfect!

Directions...yeah...I know...as soon as I get some of these pokers out of the fire I will get around to it. Honestly I get into the shop some days and the list of things to do is overwhelming...so things like revamping the directions get put to the wayside.

Someday though... ...

Yeah David, that looks text book perfect!

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Eroy,

If the photos ever may be usefull to you please feel free to use them.

David Santos

Lewis7789 said:

Silversorcerer, the audience wants to hear the DB, that's why I drag that behemoth to gigs.

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Now, if you (and I) could just convince the rest of the band of that!

Just curious, how are the cellos in the indie group amped???