ROLAND D-BASS 210 EXPERIENCE

Through a strange course of events I just got this puppy.

For starters and those unfamiliar here’s a 1/07 brief Bass Player Mag Review as well as the Roland spiel.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4503822#post4503822

http://www.roland.com/products/en/D-BASS_210/index.html


FWIW: you can just skim down through the boldface synopsis for the punch line if you want to skip the jargon.


Synopsis:

In a nutshell this is 400 watt, 50 pound, 2’ x 2’ x 1.5’ SS combo amp.

I like this amp in spite of some things I don‘t like about it. On the plus side, I’ve got a wide variety of warm, rich, melodic, clear, dynamic, tubey tones from it which is basically what I was after tone wise. The amp can be fat, flabby, or as sterile as the day is long depending on how it’s set and ran. Plenty of output yet comparatively quiet at idle. This is the kind of amp you could find guys playing totally differently to get their sound or totally differently yet getting a sound similar to yours.

On the negative side, although I’ve had glimpses of such tones using the amp only, the choice tones have come from running something on the front end. I simply found tweaking the amp itself to get tone too frustrating. Also, the amp is very mobile weight wise but the size makes it awkward to carry for any distance - especially if any kind of obstacle course is involved at all.

There's a number of these on ebay and a blem sold for $500 shipped. There's a note on my experience with the seller to date in the following.

Whole Enchilada

Over the past week I’ve played this amp A LOT, probably 3 to 6 hours a day. The amp makes you want to play it. I’ve turned it on a time or two just to hear those sounds. Messed with different settings, played different basses through it, used a bass podxt and Roland cube 30 on the front end, had my amp guy check it out, and contacted the seller regarding some damage discovered - that come to mind. There are many unexplored areas remaining but I‘ve arrived at sufficient conclusion to give my initial take on the transaction.

I like this amp in spite of some things I don‘t like about it. On the plus side, I’ve got a wide variety of warm, rich, melodic, clear, dynamic, tubey tones from it which is basically what I was after tone wise. The amp reflects pro quality nuance in tone at stage level output with handy line outs, which I was also after. Some of the tones are so defined that a single note a hair out of time in a fast run stands out like a sore thumb. I’ve played a Lightwave optical w/piezo with ground wounds; and TI Flats with Marcus Miller J, Lane Poor Mod MM w/ LP M3.5W, and a pair of Gibson T-birds through it and the amp reflects the character of the pups with similar accuracy.

The amp can be fat, flabby, or as sterile as the day is long depending on how it’s set and ran. Initially I used the Modern amp model just trying to tweak the amp. It was quite tolerable tone wise but not user friendly control wise. The Vintage amp model is on the strange side, extremely pronounced and focused mids. I’m guessing Roland knew what they were doing and I’ll eventually find out but that tone has been such a turn off that I haven’t bothered to explore it. I found a home with the cube in front running the Super Flat amp model so that’s where I’ve settled for now. This is the kind of amp you could find guys playing totally differently to get their sound or totally differently yet getting a sound similar to yours.

On the negative side, although I’ve had glimpses of such tones using the amp only, the choice tones have come from running something on the front end. I have yet to punch in 4 of the 5 Roland Rec settings let alone countless others. I simply found tweaking the amp itself too frustrating. Just a hair turn of practically any knob can take you from mundane to really sweet tone. I noticed my amp guy used totally different settings in checking the amp through his vintage Hofner. He also stated the hiss it has is nothing. That’s after I cranked gain, volume, treble, and tweeter, so the amp is comparatively quiet.

Also, the amp is very mobile weight wise but the size makes it awkward to carry for any distance - especially if any kind of obstacle course is involved at all. Reflectively, when Steve was showing me out there were a few steps and reflexively (from the amp’s appearance) reached for the back handle and jerked it up stating “Man this thing is light.”


Bought it off E(vil)Bay and it’s a brokerage that's got a bunch of the D bass stuff listed. I did find some damage at the back cord hook which had taken a hit sufficient to dent the metal amp casing a bit. Sufficient to qualify it as a blem for sure and was not described as such, unless it occurred in transit. The seller struck me as reputable and I’ve sent an email so will see what that produces.


FINALE'

Local GC had an LMII in stock. With my curiosity up, all the raves, and present circumstances; what better time to check one out and I told them as much when I picked it up. So I did a side by side with the D-Bass as well as some other stuff:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4503822#post4503822

With that ammunition at hand, the D-Bass folks got back to me with an offer that was not ideal but within reason under the circumstances. Fact is, I liked the amp so took the LMII back and ended up with the D-Bass at $10 less than the LMII.

I also cracked open the cube, pulled the pre (and power assembly since it’s integrated) and stuck it in a separate 14" x 10” x 6" tilt back box that totals 9 lbs. (1/3 the original Cube volume and weight). Added a jack out and a jack in to the original Cube so I can plug into it for testing whatever. All reversible so I can re-assemble it into it’s original form whenever. Tearing into the cube, it struck me as a very well made/designed amp.


The next two posts are basically my progression of experience with this cab that led to the above condensed version.
doink

Initial Look Synopsis:

The amp is 50 lbs with a volume of 2’x 2’x 1.5’. Top strap, side handles, small casters so a snap to lift and push over hard surfaces but no fun to carry. Cab material is cheesie and fragile but looks good new. Probably not a easy or cheap unit to repair. Initial fire-up indicates quality, flexible tone, at stage level output plus.

Whole Enchilada

For a 400 watt combo it’s light at 50 lbs and doesn’t even feel that actually. Has a top strap that actually feels more than secure and it‘s not too awkward to carry for short distances. The awkwardness is due to the volume not the weight cause at roughly 2’x 2’x 1.5’ it’s not like you’ll be carrying it through lots of doors and climbing stairs without some grief. Does have your typical cab side handles though as well as small casters. So a cakewalk to lift up and push long distances on a hard surface.

The downside of the light aspect is it’s made of something pretty cheesie and is not going to take any kind of hit without leaving proof. To make it worse the exterior coating is appealing appearance wise but brittle and non-absorbent - basically cracks with any impact. That I know cause it came with a small ding. Actually a plus cause now I know this thing is fragile and I can prepare in advance.

Does not look like a fun project to repair. It’s apparent where the joints in the cab are but that brittle coating is sprayed over the joints. The amp head is accessible in that it slips into an open compartment but there’s only about a half inch spacing beneath it to the cab and in that space is a grommet that no doubt contains the wiring harness connecting the two. So you’re not going to be loosening up a few screws and sliding that head out. Steve Stokle in Charlotte does my amp work and I’m going to haul it into him to have a gander so I’ll update this later with what he has to say about that.

I’ve just fired it up to check function so haven’t even played it to music yet. One of the major reasons it ended up here is because I was so impressed with the Cube 30. I’ve actually thought about mic’ing it to a power amp (doesn’t sound near as good through the line out as out the speaker), but I‘d sold my mics. The D-bass is a totally different animal than the cubes but I thought if it would put out that tone, I was interested. Enough to where I took a stab and it appears that it does have similar quality and flexibility in tone even though controls are very different. The amp modeling in the cube is super convenient to flip through for tone but if I can get the tones by tweaking knobs then I’m willing to suffer the process for that tone at stage level output - and this thing is loud.


First Play Synopsis

Agree with the Bass Player Mag (BPM) the amp model titles are deceptive and their tones are VERY different at the same settings. The D Bass isn’t striking me as a very user friendly amp in terms of obtaining a desired tone. There’s a lot of interaction between all of the controls which is to say it doesn’t take much adjustment of a single control to alter tone. Not hard to get a decent tone but often took some tweaking to get it where I wanted it and sometimes I didn‘t.

The first obstacles were getting the flab out of the low end and getting overall tone more melodic - especially the top end - had some success with both. I also haven’t got the hang of consistently creating the tube warmth I like. Got bits and pieces of some appealing qualities like growl, string graze, warmth, punch, and good definition - all of which are in the bass and the amp reflected them as well as I’ve heard them at times.

Was a synch to roll onto the back deck compared to my GS112 stack setup. Deck cracks were no issue for the D Bass casters but I guessing they wouldn’t fair so well with pebbles and the like.

Whole Enchilada

Music played to: Reggae, Blues, Country, Rock - some Jazz, 60's R&B, and Latin, with a few Stanley Clarke riffs thrown in solo.

The bass is acoustically bright with TI Jazz Flats and a single bridge Marcus Miller J ran straight to the jack - no onboard controls. The Miller is probably may fav in a keeper stash of Dark Star, Lane Poors, Alembics, Bongo, etc.

I’m not much of a bass player so I compensate with tone and I’m basically a tone junkie - as reflected in going to extremes like having tried some 100 different sets of pups. But anything that effects tone gets my attention and when it comes right down to it, there’s not much that doesn’t effect tone. From technique/dynamics to tube changes/whatever. So I tend to be constantly tweaking looking for an edge as well as trying a diversity of tones to the same tunes.

I’ve spent a couple hours playing the D Bass to tunes so some initial impressions. Agree with the Bass Player Mag (BPM) take on the amp model designations being deceptive. This first round I worked out of the Modern setting cause that’s where I got the best Vintage tone. Unlike the cube, the D Bass amp models are VERY different at the same settings. Tones were noticeably similar to the cube, just not arrived at as quickly as controls are not so canned - and I’m not use to them yet. But the D Bass definitely isn’t as user friendly as the cube in terms of obtaining a desired tone. There’s a lot of interaction between all of the controls which is to say it doesn’t take much adjustment of a single control to alter tone - a good sign in terms of flexibility in tone. The D Bass seems to have more variety in tone than the cube but what matters is how useful those tones are and that remains to be seen. Not hard to get a decent tone but often took some tweaking to get it where I wanted it and sometimes I didn‘t get it before the next tune came up.

The first obstacles were getting the flab out of the low end and getting the top end melodic but I had some success with both. Anybody who likes flab would be in flab heaven with the D bass cause you can pretty much graduate it to suit your taste. I like a little flab but no more - like I typically get out of the GS112’s. I also haven’t got the hang of creating the tube warmth I like but it’s there cause I‘ve gotten it a few times. In accord, tone’s aren’t as melodic overall as I want yet either. Got bits and pieces of some appealing qualities like growl, string graze, warmth, punch, and good definition - all of which are in the bass and the amp reflected them as well as I’ve heard at times.

I like to play on the back deck and rolling the D bass out there is a breeze, much easier than doing the same with the GS112 stack setup. I have 3” commercial casters on the stack and like those a lot better than the 1 ½” D bass casters. The deck cracks weren’t an issue for the D bass casters but I’m guessing pebbles or the like may be a different story. Carrying the D bass up a flight of stairs in one hand fairly effortlessly like mentioned in BPM strikes me a bit over the top - although it would be compared to hauling the stack.


Second Play Synopsis

Still fighting for tone but it is improving. Forgot the manual does have a few amp setting recs and working out of one of them yielded some good tones with little hassle. The abundance of flab previously experienced I believe had the tube pre setting as the main source, combined with how it was being mixed with the other controls. There’s also an SS setting. Resolving the lack of warmth is considerably more complex as most of the controls effect warmth in the mix. That includes the tweeter which actually seems a very exceptional control. It impacts the overall mix so that a topping of butter, cream, or honey can be thrown in and is interactive with the treble control in way that makes it seem like a 2 band treble not a treble with your typical piezo sounding tweeter added.


Whole Enchilada

I’m guessing getting sounds I want will be a lot easier once I get used to the controls but at this point I’d as soon they’d set the D Bass up just like the cube. I don’t mind doing a bunch of tweaking for a sound at all, but I only want to do it once cause anything beyond that is just wasted time. Complex tweaking needs to be programmable to be to my liking. Jotting down settings on hardcopy is for the birds.

In thinking of the amp models being deceptive, fighting to get tone, and my tendency to always work off the cut side of EQ and use more gain; I recalled the manual had some rec settings. I’d forgot about the manual, took me a while to even find it. The standard rec settings utilize all the amp models and include Woodie Jazz (URB), Slap, Rock, Solo, and Smooth Finger. I’d think the eq would be set flat for 3 of them but smooth finger was the only one that was and that’s the one I picked - and got my first glimpse of the BMP reference to the amp being low maintenance rather than high maintenance as I‘ve experienced. I got some good tones for a variety of styles with minimal tweaking. The amp clearly is capable of putting out pro sounds.

Speaking of the manual, the flab appears to have been related to the tube pre setting (seems in combination with gain), also is likely related to getting vintage tone from the modern amp setting. There’s also a SS pre option and in deed the amp emits a modern tone using the SS pre on the modern setting. My initial run was done using just the tube pre.

As for warmth and melodic tone, a lot of the controls effect them both: especially gain, pre, mid, mid frequency, treble, and tweeter; any one or combination of which could be the ticket at the moment. The tweeter is remarkable in how it can effect the overall mix in terms of melodic quality, especially the top end but all ranges. It’s not your usual piezo quality tweeter tone at all and can ad some butter, cream, or honey to the mix at times depending on what frequency range it‘s seems to effect. The manual says it handles frequencies beyond the treble control range but it seems much more than just that, not only in terms of the effects on the overall mix but the interactive way it works with the treble control - like having a two band treble control.

FWIW: bunch of these hitting ebay now so maybe some real good prices forthcoming on them.

Third Play Synopsis

I briefly plugged the Lightwave with ground wounds into the D Bass and the amp is definitely good for slap. Next I plugged the Bass podxt into it with the D Bass set flat tone wise using the Super Flat amp model. That resulted in some decent tones but overall pretty bland and dull, but the tones were set for the the GS112 power rig and I just ran through the patches without any tweaking of consequence.

Also just realized today the side handles are plastic.

Whole Enchilada

Something I do periodically, especially when bored, is run through the pod patches from beginning to end playing to the standard tunes. I do it for lots of reasons but haven’t done it for months now it seems. Seemed a good time since I was wondering how the pod would sound through the D Bass flat amp section, given the TB consensus is the ideal amplification for the pod is flat cabs. As can be obtained from the synopsis, the experience was nothing impressive.

What little tweaking I did was primarily cutting treble and the tweeter back to about 10 o’clock, some swapping back and forth with the tube/ss pre, and a little with the shape switch. I also cut the mids back some (since the consensus on TB is the GS112’s sound scooped) and ran through other amp models on an isolated occasion. I really just wanted to determine what the patches sounded like untouched. The only thing I touched on the pod was output and patch select.

Sound in general was pretty flat and boring but there were some interesting and useable tones, just not many. Cutting the top end on the D Bass consistently benefited tone and that’s how I played with few exceptions. Cutting mids depended more on the patch/tune so I didn’t mess with it more than to reach that conclusion. Using the SS pre consistently yielded a more hi-fi tone so I pretty much stuck to the tube pre. The shape button I used occasionally but on the Super Flat amp it basically just adds more of the same, so if you don’t like what you’ve already got it’s unlikely to change that. I flipped through the D bass amp models on a couple of occasions but it didn’t make any improvement , it was just different.


Fourth Play Synopsis

Now we’re having some fun. Haven’t figured out the combo to the D Bass but I’m getting sounds I like to hear coming from it by sticking the cube on the front end.

Whole Enchilada

Maybe there is something to fourplay after all, does make the wait more enjoyable. I enjoy tone searching but only when the searching produces results I like to hear. Perhaps the combination to the D bass will reveal itself in time but it’s tweak time allotment has expired. During the interim the combination is literally going to be a combo - running a line out from the Roland Cube combo into it. It’s very similar but even better in tone than the cube by itself, more rich and tubey not to mention the volume - plus I get all those effects I never use. I never realized till I got the volume up that the cube actually sounds a lot like the Aggies. I tried the cube on the front end of the QSC into the Aggies but it just didn’t sound as good or like it did through that little co-axial 10, just louder.

The downside is using two amps, and that little cube weighs about 30 pounds. The two weighing as much as the pair of Aggies. I don’t know how much of that is the guts but the cab material is 1 1/8” thick. I don’t know what’s inside that casing either but the back panel takes up half the back of the amp. Not much point to dinking with splitting out the pre into an outboard box if a sizeable volume and weight savings don’t result. But it’s always fun to make people wonder what you got in that box making those sweet sounds. I’ll probably look Steve up Monday and I’ll ask him about some options.

I ran the D bass using the Super Flat amp, vintage pre with a little compression (less than 9 o'clock), shape on most of the time, treble and tweeter about 10 o'clock, the rest mostly flat. I used compression to yield a thinner or fatter tone and varied mid frequency between 12 o'clock (flat) and about 10 o'clock. Played with the treble and tweeter a little but pretty minimal adjustment in general.

Fifth Play

Started off with the Rock setting Roland rec and found it interesting but not very useful. It’s sort of an over-the-top version of vintage rock tone - real in your face nasal mid tone. Sort of like a caricature drawing of a person in tone version. But I played around with it and out of it for a while with nothing I’d consider salvageable so I hooked the cube on the front end and enjoyed my playing time rather than suffer.

To be continued - doink

epoxo57 said:

Hmmm....good timing. I was eyeing one of these units myself so it'll be interesting what you reveal.

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Yeh me too. A large combo is the last thing I had intended to land on the doorstep. Looks like it may be just the ticket though. This was a refurb off ebay for $700 shipped with full factory warranty - just a piece of the puzzle that got it here. There was one with some cab damage for $600 and if I'd known it didn't take anything to cause that kind of damage in this cab, I probably would have taken it and pocketed the Ben.

$700 is about what the dude in classifieds is selling his for and maybe he'll chime in.

I've played a couple hours through it and I'll post an update before long. Sounds promising though.

JRB said:

Looking forward to the review of the tone. A little let down so far with what you have to say. I have been thinking about getting this combo for practice and small gigs (or waiting for the markbass F1 or other micro head with a small cab)

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Like the intro said, not your typical thread. It will evolve over time into whatever it evolves into. I did one of these on the V bass that went on for months but in comparison the Vbass is like a 747 and the D Bass is like a model airplane, so I figure a week. That’s the time frame to send this back so it will be a relatively focused period. Things I don’t like I can tell right away. Keepers for me only prove to be keepers by still being around years later. We all have gear we like but move on in short order regardless but the stuff we all really want is the stuff we use regularly that doesn’t go till we do. So there won’t be any conclusion for me in this review but within the next week there probably will be enough for someone to make an informed decision as to whether it’s something they’d want to look into for themselves.

Yeh the modularized subcompact rig was always the end game, which is why this purchase came out of the blue. I’ve got a pair of GS112‘s, Bass podxt, and QSC but I found as often as not I’d just flip the cube on. In fact it’s been a cyclical thing since I got the cube to where I play through the cube for a period when I’m just playing to music and through the QSC when I’m tone searching or tweaking tones to tunes.

But your typical subcompact rig has two cabs for starters (cause one just doesn‘t seem to cut it once you‘ve used two) and typically sound better with throttle open. And two cabs no matter how small or light aren’t going to be smaller, lighter, or more convenient than the D Bass. The Bergs and MB’s are the latest wave on TB and no doubt good stuff but that doesn’t mean they’re my cup of tea. Also I prefer to buy stuff that’s tried and tested for at least a year AND used (or at least at used prices). I try to buy so I can sell something in short order for what I've got into it if I don't like it.

Looking into the D bass was a lot like the Vbass, been around for years but nobody seemed to use them. In part probably because they’re pricey and gimmicky. What I found was nothing touched the Vbass for what it does well. I also had the GR 20, which was good at what it did. As much as I like the cube I was thinking maybe the witchcraft Roland’s thrown into the DBass may make for higher quality sounds from a smaller package at stage levels. The Cube 100 was just too marginal on power and in between utilities.

tallboybass said:

I too am a fan of the Cube 100.....especially the 'SuperFlat' setting. Very interesting, as I was considering this same amp as a bigger version of the Cube.

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I'm guessing you could get all the sounds out of the D bass you can get out of a cube. It's an incredibly flexible amp, maybe too flexible in terms of being user friendly. Too early to say but in a way I wish they'd used the same amp model setup as the cube. It's so much easier and quicker just to flip from amp to amp instead of jack with the tone settings. I keep my cube around the same tone settings and just flip through the amp models and toggle the shape button to get tone. I get a real nice mix of varied useable tones that way.

This is day 7 so I'll condense the above into something hopefully readable in the next 24 hrs. I don't go through many amps so I'm not used to doing amp reviews. Different animal than pickup reviews. There's been some interesting updates as well.

Just a bump for the condensed version of the reveiw for anyone interested - since there's a few on the bay currently.

Nedmundo said:

Thanks for your in-depth analysis, which is consistent with my very short time playing the D-Bass combos a couple of months ago...

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Understand, a large combo is the last thing I had in mind - especially considering I could have picked up an LMII, used AI SA/whatever at the price (that I have in it at the moment anyway). Even knowing what I know now I doubt I’d pay the 12 Ben MF price for one but this was basically a used price with full warranty.

At any rate, those amps I can get any time pretty much and the D-bass units don’t show often - and the cube is just so sweet I was hoping for the same (just not quite in form it came in). I still may end up sticking the cube in a box (given the amp's volume and weight of practically 30 lbs) as a mobile pre and rig it so I can still run it to the cube. I'll give it some time to figure out the combination to the D-Bass settings as I can always do the cube pre thing whenever the need arises. Regardless, in combination with the cube, I have no qualms about keeping it. If nothing else I've had the opportunity to seriously check the D-bass out and you can't really do that in a store setting. So Win/Win at this point.

In the last couple days I’ve run a Model J, an Alembic J through it and just ran a DM X2N-B this evening - a sweet pup. It’s just a pleasurable amp to play through. If I keep it, I’ll hang onto at least one of my Aggies to try the amps of interest so I can side by side them and feel comfortable with the one that goes. One just never know, do one.

Nedmundo said:

Forgot to mention that, even before I auditioned the D-BASS combos, I thought about using the Cube 100 with the D-BASS 115x powered extension cab...

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The thought never occurred to me to run the cube through a powered cab. I guess because I ran cube > QSC > pair of GS112's and wasn't impressed. I wouldn't have run it through the D-Bass if I'd had luck otherwise.

I just tried running the Cube through the D-Bass effects return instead of the input jack to try and skip the D-Bass pre and sort of use it as a powered cab for the cube but tone was thin and got some distortion even at low levels of output from the cube. May have something to do with the DM X2N-B that's in the bass but no issue on running into the instrument input and the pup sounds full and melodic through it.

epoxo57 said:

luknfur:

What ever was your final synopsis on the D Bass 210? Yay? Nay?

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I've been meaning to punch out a Finale' but just slow. I'll see if I can get it done before the witching hour. In a way still in process though.

But the D-Bass is staying. I did a comparison with the LMII using a GS112 as well as a Rube Golberg Celestion 15 "cab" and took the LMII back (it's posted in amps forum somewhere). Nice amp, I just liked the tone and variety I pulled from the Roland to where I couldn't part with it. I can buy an LMII new anytime but the Rolands harder to come by - especially at the price which ended up costing a little less than the LMII actually.

FWIW:

tossed the Finale' (such as it is) at the tail end of the first post.


WovenGraphite:

Personally I have a hard playing something with frets I can get my arms around so have no clue. Out of curiosity, think I'll skim the DB forum and see if anything turns up. Seems the Clarus was closer to the power of the D-Bass than the Focus but it's been a while since I've looked at either. The D-Bass is on the clunky side for subway travel I'd think but no worse than an URB for sure.

A little continued experienced with this machine. Just keeps getting better.


Got around to incorporating the vintage amp model and compression. In combination with the Concert model on the cube (Ampeg SVT/810E), got a very appealing well defined squawkie tone with good punch and spits notes like bullets. Worked well to all tunes, although quite a different spin on some of them.

I've noticed the amp is more defined at speaker level than standing up. Also read in the manual where they tell to you remove the casters for transport so it crossed my mind to check out the amp tone without the casters on. Hadn't given it any thought previously since the amp is only caster height off the deck. Removing the casters didn't increase the bottom end but it added to the definition in tone both standing up and at speaker level. I assume it would sound pretty much the same with speakers about head level and I'll find out next round.

FWIW: forgot to mention this one with a G&L L2K pup ran series straight to the jack in bridge position.