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Epifani Ul 112x2 not enough speaker...what now?

funkyfretless

funkyfretless

Jan 15, 2006
1,048
92
Atlanta, Ga
www.evanhodges.com
#1
hey guys,
had another thread with this queston, but feels i deserves a thread of its own.

my ul 122's have been clipping with my new rig a dememter hbp1 and a carvin dcm 1000.

i use 1 112 for small gigs and practices and both for bigge gigs.
i noticed my rig was clipping at an outside gig and with 1 at a lound band practice.

i play in a funk r&b band with drums, guitar, keys, and a horn every now and then. i have pa support 1/2 the time give or take. and the other band is a loud blues and funk band with 2 lound...(one extrememly loud) guitarists, drums and vocals. i usually use 1 at practices and its on the verge of clippin.

would like to keep these cabs...greatfor upright, but need possibly another cab to mix and match so i wont hurt my 112's.

should i look into another cab company like bergantino's nv or 322 cabs?? or should i look into an epifani ul 4x10??

my basses i use are usa darrly jones 4, 64 p with flats, an adler fretless 4, and a hybrid upton upright.

my amp rig is a carvin dcm 1000, a demeter hbp1, a aguilar db750(possibly gettin rid of) and a walter woods green light..(on the way).

im more of an old school tone player...but like some modern ound to it. i like the epi's ul 112 tone, but wonder if a 410 sound would not go with my sound. maybe something like 215 or 322 possibly would fufill my needs better... for louder gigs.

thanks,

evan
 
#2
UL410 is your answer.

My 2) 112's could not cut if for me either. They had too much lows, not enough mid and seemed to give out quite easily.

FWIW - most 112 designs are not able to use more than 100w before they start clipping. The 410 design will get you to 400w total power usage before clipping. Speakers are rather limiting things.

I just did an outdoors show at a Nascar rase with cars screaming by, I never had an issue with clipping or volume limitations. The UL410 has to be the loudest 410 I've ever tried. Louder than 810's IMHO. Worlds louder than the UL112's, which seem to crap out around 8 o'clock master volume. The UL410 finds the limitation of my ears before it finds the limitation of the speakers.

I would also look for some cleaner power. You would be better served with a Stewart World 2.1 or something around 2000w.
 
#4
That was the only disadvantage I observed with Epis, where they are super rich in sound, they are just a little light in volume. I guess that's the trade off. You just need more speaker. I wold suggest you move up to a 410 ul.
Good luck
 
#5
was the amp clipping, or were the speakers farting out? was the clipping constant or just when you dug in or slapped hard?

try the epi's with your db750 and see if your problems persist. you may find you need more amp instead of more speaker.
 
#7
I still think 112's are not the way to go if you are hearing ANY cone breakup. Cone breakup is going to be a limitation of ANY 112 design since they are all very similar.

The 410 will bolster your volume and sensitivity around 6db, which is SUBSTANTIAL and to my ears it sounds much cleaner, clearer, and full/rich have you.

The 112's sounded ok, but did not have the definition nor the cutting power/volume. I would have blown my 112's doing an outdoor show. The 410 took all i could handle it and begged for more. Where as the 112's gave up WAY before the power amp did, the power amp gives up before the 410 does. Significant difference between the two, and this is IME and IMO.

112's are cool and all, but the UL410 is lighter than 2)112's and sounds worlds better. Perhaps the UL310 is the solution for you as well, its just a matter of the volume you do need.
 
#8
well i dig in pretty hard sometimes. and when this happens...like at the outdoor show..exspecially with the oc 2 octavce pedal on, it was red, red, red..green, red, red, red...green...red..if you get my point.

i was looking at another power amp possilby as well. the carvin isnt that clean when its pushed...it breaks up somewhat. would a crest ca 6 or ca 9 do the trick??

ive heard really good things about the ul 4x10, but is it similar to the ul 122's tone...??
 
#10
funkyfretless said:
well i dig in pretty hard sometimes. and when this happens...like at the outdoor show..exspecially with the oc 2 octavce pedal on, it was red, red, red..green, red, red, red...green...red..if you get my point.

i was looking at another power amp possilby as well. the carvin isnt that clean when its pushed...it breaks up somewhat. would a crest ca 6 or ca 9 do the trick??
Click to expand...

yeah your clipping the power amp. I would change that ASAP. The CA6/9 are great amps, best probbably out there for bass (arguably) but they are heavy, hard to carry around and bigger than most amps so they require a big rack. Hence my reason for pointing you towards something a little smaller like a stewart world or QSC PLX2.

funkyfretless said:
ive heard really good things about the ul 4x10, but is it similar to the ul 122's tone...??
Click to expand...

similar... maybe if you pay attention to the tweeter. The UL410 has a much deeper low end, but in a way its thiner and easier to control. They mids are much more present but not overpowering. The upper frequency mids are more apparent but not overbearing. I find that the UL410 is the most balanced Epifani cab i've owned and does not color the tone as much as the 12's do. The 12's sounded boxy and boomy to me. The 10's are defined and rich.

FWIW - I got out of my UL112s and into the UL410 for a little less than $40. :D best money i've ever spent!
 
#11
Xed32 said:
Hmm, I htink my 2x10 is farting out at decent volumes, even though its rated at 600w, explain the difference here please?
Click to expand...

Cone breakup sounds like farting and usually before the onset of it you will notice the volume knob does less and less as you approach the speakers max power. The farting will generally get louder indicating that the power is causing a problem with your cone.

The power amp clipping will be similar but usually if its not near the limits of the speaker, backing off the volume clears it up but does not change the volume when it clears. This indicates you were asking too much of the amp rather than the speaker.

Usually its hard to figure out which it is, but if your cone area is only 2)112's then I'd point the fingers at the 12's rather than the amp, unless your amp has a clip light and its on a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, somebody.
 
#12
all i'm saying is that the carvin power amp might have some creative marketing when it comes to their power rating. funky owns a db750 which i have heard him play loudly with the band in question. (also with 2 12's, gs112's not epifani's) i thought he had more than adequate volume with the db750 and i know it has a very loud conservativly rated power section. i figured that the db750 would either eliminate or expose the carvin as the weak link in the chain.

if he heard his speakers farting and the amp was not clipping i would say that it is definately the speakers.

xed32, i would say that you probably have the bass knob too high, but that's just a guess. there are too many unknown variables in the question you posed.
 
#15
see if the db750's power section will clear things up a bit. if you can get adequate volume out of your existing cabs then i would say you have the problem identified. if you still find the volume lacking then either get a bigger cab or two more ul112's. btw i would be cautious when you do this. i might try it before you get with your band. listen carefully to your speakers, they will let you know when they are running out of excursion before they blow, but the warning sounds might get lost in the mix. get your volume up as high as you feel comfortable and the speakers still sound clean. then remember that volume and don't exceed it with the band. btw, evan, i have a qsc 2402 that you could borrow for a short time if you need it. it has some high pass filters on it that would probably do very well to help you get more usable volume out of your cabs. pm me if you need it. good luck.
 
#17
I uses two 1x12UL's for 2 years now and they are so great. Uses them small places and big outdoor stages and they are still great. Cant' understand if you not a lough enough at club gigs! Of cause on the big stages they don't move that much air (I understand why some uses 8x10 on big stages) Some gigs I think could use a bit more and therefore I've ordered a 4x10UL :D

But try different amps and see how that's like.

-Christian
 
#18
2x112's can only do so much. The tone is different from the 410 but with the new Series 2, it adds a little more low end and low mids. The S2 really smoothed out the whole mid voiceing and a little more to the high end. I also play with loud guitarists and drummer, 95% of the time I take my UL410 S2 (was a S1).
I take my 112's to gigs I know we need not to be as loud.

I agree with Joel, he has a good sence about him. The Stewart would be a good amp, light weight with plenty of headroom. The Crest CA 6/9 will give you plenty of oooomph
but is heavy.

It just might be in your amp, I've know Carvin amps (older models) to crap out at higher volumes. They would peak out early, they'd be great up to about 10 or 11 O'clock start crapping out above that. I don't know about any of the newer models in the past 8 years, so don't know if that might be your problem.

I've said this many times, IMHO, the Epi UL410 is the do it all cab.
 
#20
if you need more volume than that rig delivers, it seems like you should have PA support....no? edit: i see you have it only 1/2 the time. hmm.

i think you should just add another Epi-UL112. you like the sound...and 3 12's is going to kill. plus you retain modularity and you won't have the bother of selling off gear (and taking the hit).

i'm assuming your carvin will drive 3 8 ohm cabs.
 

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