Double Bass Doubling gigs

I use the same amp for electric and upright basses, though I use a Fishman Pro with the upright. This weekend, I'll simply find a setting that works for the electric by itself and with the Fishman and acoustic bass, then simply unplug one and plug the other one in...

Thus far i've been pretty happy with the tone i get out of my SWR WM12 for doubling gigs. It weighs a bit more than i'd like it to, but it'll suffice until i can afford a super light weight rig.

What i do w/the EQ is just leave it flat. My DB sounds pretty good thru it flat, sometimes i'll adjust the Aural Enhancer to compensate for the room. With my electric [75% a Ray5, 25% passive Fender J] i leave it flat and use the on boards for the tone shaping. The Ray5 i can do pretty much everything i need to on board, the jazz basses-typically i just run em wide open or just solo a pickup.

I've bought a little Morley AB/Y Box off of a fellow TBer that i plan on using on my next doubling gig. No more fumbling with cables.

I haven't been able to get enough electric bass punch with my acoustic rig (AI Clarus/Epifani UL110), so I end up using my trusty GK 700RB for both basses. I'll use a Fishman preamp for the upright.

On days when I have an acoustic and electric gig (but not doubling) I'll take both amps and the UL110. That Epifani cab is PLENTY for my jazz and Latin gigs, and easily handles my 5 string.

Good question and one that I have dealt with recently. For me, my upright sounds best with my Acoustic Image Coda R, but the slab doesn't work too well with this amp. My GK rig sounded good with the slab but not so good with the upright. So I had to either play UB or slab but doubling required bringing both rigs.

The other issue is cartage. Any gig where you are schlepping the upright and an amp is a two-trip load in usually. Because I really wanted to double and keep the load-in simple, I recently got an NS CR4M and a Euphonic Audio Micro300/Wizzy 10 rig. Now I can play EUB, slab and have great tone with both. Plus the channel switching capability of the Micro make it easy to go back and forth. The whole rig loads in with one trip...two shoulders, two hands!

While it is a compromise to playing the real upright, it provides other advantages, like being able to play at loud volumes without fear of feedback. For pure gigs, I still use the upright/AI rig only.

Since most of my gigs are on upright, my approach was to try and get a rig that sounds really good with DB first. In a word (to me), that means an "accurate" sound. Currently, I'm using an AI Focus 2R head with an EA Wizzy M-line cabinet.

Then the only thing I do different for the slabs is I plop a SansAmp BDDI in the signal chain to thicken things up. The various tone shaping controls on the SansAmp work really well with all 3 of my EBs. Bass, treble, presence, drive, and even the knob for the "fake tube" sound really are all pretty remarkable at achieving a varied and pleasing set of tones for slab IMO.

The Focus 2R is a 2 channel head, which makes the whole switching in between songs thing easy. But there are other solutions even for single channel amps. Like maybe a preamp into the effects return, or a splitter box like Cam mentioned. I dunno, never researched that type of config. But search around a bit in this forum if your head only has one channel.

Edit - I was also fortunate enough to pick up an EA iAMP-200 Wizzy combo several years ago. That's now my backup rig. IMO it is a real nice "all in one" package that works well w/ both DB and EB.

bopeuph said:

My dilemma is I have a big band gig coming up where they want me to bring both axes. I've heard the Polytone is loud enough to play with a big band, but I don't know. It's awful small, and I've usually played 400 watt bass amps with a band that big (someone said the gig might be 10 piece though).

With the current setup, what's the best suggestion? I'd like to eventually get a real good pre, like the PMB, or the Solstice, but I just don't have the money right now.

Nick

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I used a Polytone for years as a BG amp playing hard rock. It worked well, and gave me one of the tightest BG sounds I have heard. The Mini Brut II I think.

bopeuph said:

My dilemma is I have a big band gig coming up where they want me to bring both axes. I've heard the Polytone is loud enough to play with a big band, but I don't know. It's awful small, and I've usually played 400 watt bass amps with a band that big (someone said the gig might be 10 piece though).

With the current setup, what's the best suggestion? I'd like to eventually get a real good pre, like the PMB, or the Solstice, but I just don't have the money right now.

Nick

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I think it is likely that the MiniBrute will be enough on its own. But, if you're not sure, I would do one of two things: 1) bring the 15" cabinet from your slab rig and use it as an extension speaker to the MiniBrute (if there is an extension speaker jack, something I can't tell from their website) or 2) bring both rigs and use the preamp out from the MiniBrute as the input to your power amp on the slab rig. That should get you a very loud upright although feedback is always a possibility before reaching maximum volume. You can try both approaches at home first and see whether the volume of the slab rig with the MiniBrute as a preamp is appreciably louder.

bopeuph said:

Copied and pasted from my profile. This is what I own:

Upright rig:
1945 Kay M-1 upright bass
Fishman BP100 pickup
Polytone Mini Brute III (yes, I got it. Sounds great with the upright without the preamp.)

Electric rig:
Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass
BBE 383 preamp
QSC MX-1500 power amp
EAW 15" sub

My dilemma is I have a big band gig coming up where they want me to bring both axes. I've heard the Polytone is loud enough to play with a big band, but I don't know. It's awful small, and I've usually played 400 watt bass amps with a band that big (someone said the gig might be 10 piece though).

With the current setup, what's the best suggestion? I'd like to eventually get a real good pre, like the PMB, or the Solstice, but I just don't have the money right now.

Nick

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Nick,
Well you have quite a delema here. The first thing I'd change is the your pickup, but you obviously can't do that right before the gig. The BP-100 is very dated piezo technology at this point. A Full Circle would really improve you're signal chain. One of the basic problems with the BP-100 is that it takes a 10 meg ohm load to sound with the amp you have. Another possible sugestion I would have is to buy FDecks little buffer/preamp and try using that into the BBE. From what I can gather the BBE's have a 1 meg ohm input that would work great with a newer pickup (Fishman Full Circle). But the BP-100 needs to see 10 meg ohm.

Ric

bopeuph said:

Copied and pasted from my profile. This is what I own:

Upright rig:
1945 Kay M-1 upright bass
Fishman BP100 pickup
Polytone Mini Brute III (yes, I got it. Sounds great with the upright without the preamp.)

Electric rig:
Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass
BBE 383 preamp
QSC MX-1500 power amp
EAW 15" sub

My dilemma is I have a big band gig coming up where they want me to bring both axes. I've heard the Polytone is loud enough to play with a big band, but I don't know. It's awful small, and I've usually played 400 watt bass amps with a band that big (someone said the gig might be 10 piece though).

With the current setup, what's the best suggestion? I'd like to eventually get a real good pre, like the PMB, or the Solstice, but I just don't have the money right now.

Nick

Click to expand...

Ah, I did not realize from your OP that we couldn't spend any money or throw down ideas for new gear.

When then, if you have the time, just experiment with various combinations of your stuff before the gig, mix and match and perhaps combine. Use your own ears to decide what works and what doesn't. (Because frankly some of the stuff we've told you in this and other threads is either conflicting or flat out wrong. What do we know? Let your ears decide. )

If you don't schlep both rigs, you might be dealing with pulling out and pushing in cables, futzing with EQ when you have to switch.

If you can't or don't want to do that, and you can't get a good sound w/ upright and your big rig, then use the Polytone and just double on it, and don't try to out-shout the band.

Raising it off the floor might help you and others hear it better, but then again taking away the floor coupling might make it sound like cr*p. I dunno. You're gonna have to be flexible and experiment some ...

I use one amp. Set it to my upright sound and then use the preamp on my bass to adjust. Then i plug into a Morley A/B pedal and use that for quick switching

bopeuph said:

So new piezo pickups are more of a 1 Mohm load?

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I'd say "Yes", after having pored over almost every new thread and almost every new post in this forum for the past several years. In fact, the Little Mark II from Markbass only has a 500 K Ohm input, and a lot of people in this forum have good things to say about it w/ a piezo p/u. But as you saw in another thread recently, not everyone else agrees w/ the "newer piezos sound fine w/ 1 Ohm" thing.

bopeuph said:

So they don't need a good pre?

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That depends. On your pickup, your amp, and your tastes. Various preamps do provide more than impedance buffering. Do you want phase reversal? EQ? Some pre's add color or shape to the tone, others try very hard not to.

You only need one if you don't like your sound without it.

Heck, several of us (including me) told you that you had to have a preamp with a BP-100. But ... apparently not w/ your Polytone. I could be oversimplying, but maybe bright pickup + dark amp = happy compromize.

At some point, for amplified DB I think you just gotta start buying sh^& you think is likely to succeed based on what you read here and elsewhere, and then try it and see for yourself. For DB, you really have to hear it w/ your bass and your ears I think. I'm on my fourth pickup, fifth (external) preamp, and third mic in my little progression toward "the sound." And new stuff comes out all the time. Gotta stay open-minded, and not get all defensive when other people say they don't like what you like or their sh%^ is the best and everything else sucks.

P.S. I agree w/ Ric, and if I were you the next thing I would do would be to try swapping out that BP-100 for a Full Circle.

My first double bass related purchase after the actual bass was a Fishman Platinum preamp w/eq. I can't say that the tone of the preamp is outstanding IMO BUT it has allowed me to get a useable gig tone using whatever amp/pickup combination was available to me. In my experience, it was money well spent as my budget was limited as well. That may be a low cost option for you if funds are tight.

Tslicebass said:

I use one amp. Set it to my upright sound and then use the preamp on my bass to adjust. Then i plug into a Morley A/B pedal and use that for quick switching

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I use an electric rig for big gigs and a URB rig for little gigs and compromise on tone/EQ settings in either case.

I wouldn't use the Morley pedal, though. Despite it having an indicator light, it's actually a passive switch that throws a resistor (IIRC) into the circuit to eliminate pops. However, doing so also dulls the tone and cuts the level.

I've been using a Boss AB pedal that uses an active switching system. It has minimum impact on the tone and runs forever on a pair of AAA batteries. It's around $35 and is very sturdy, too.

bopeuph said:

If I do use my Midiman mixer for the electric and the upright, I will need a pre for the upright, because the Midiman kills all the lows. Would Fdeck's work, or do I need one with an EQ to adjust the tone?

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I could be wrong, but I think fdeck's preamp will give you more suitable impedance matching with your BP-100, and restore the lows that you're losing going straight into the Midiman.

You only need EQ on the preamp if you don't like the way it sounds without it. If you have adequate EQ capabilities further down in your signal chain (like on your amp), this probably becomes less of a concern.

A high pass filter (like the one on the HPF-Pre) works kind of like a Bass EQ knob, but it provides only cut, not boost.

I use an AI Coda R and it works well for me especially if I use an extension cab (Ampeg PB212H). It has a lot of advantages for the DB and sounds fine with my Ritters as well. I can use an Ampeg PB 800 head and it has a nice rich sound, but no phantom powered XLR inputs like the Coda, which allows the easy use of a nice mic on the DB, nor does it have the notch filter or shelf filter that help minimize feedback. I do like the sound of the Ampeg for the DB and for the EBGs, but I think the Coda is better for DB, the Ampeg slightly preferable for EBG. I think for me it depends on how loud I need to go, the venue, and the proportion of bow work. The DB has a much better arco sound with a mic. I have used the Ampeg with just a K&K bassmax and it has a nice fat percussive pizz. sound but it is not as true to the wood as the mic. Depending on your needs, these are two well built systems that both have 2 identical channels and were built with doubling in mind.