Double Bass Dampits

Jake said:

I have a question -- Is it benificial to use Dampits while the bass is out of it's bag? It's nice keeping the bass out so I don't have to unpack and do a lot of tuning everytime I want to pick up the bass.

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What, 80 percent humidity isn't enough for you, you want it at 90?

A Dampit in any Bass anywhere is more likely to cause damage to the Bass then to help the humidity around it. The room air alone is more volume than a 1,000 Dampits could humidify. Put a bucket or water on the floor next to the Bass if you don't have a digitally controlled humidifier.

KSB - Ken Smith said:

A Dampit in any Bass anywhere is more likely to cause damage to the Bass then to help the humidity around it.

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+1! I'd go a step further and say that, even when the bass is in the case, the potential for damage is too great. I solve both problems by using an evaporative humidifier in the room where my bass lives (that supplements my whole-house humidifier) and, when necessary, by placing a sponge inside an open zip-lock bag in the case when I am traveling. No dampits for me! Take a look at this recent thread.

I know many disagree, but I feel that if an instrument can't survive day to day use without extreme pampering like controling humidity, then either something is wrong with the instrument or it's just not something I want to own. I want to spend time playing my instruments, not taking care of them like a sick child.

toman said:

I know many disagree, but I feel that if an instrument can't survive day to day use without extreme pampering like controling humidity, then either something is wrong with the instrument or it's just not something I want to own. I want to spend time playing my instruments, not taking care of them like a sick child.

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I don't know what kind of experience you have with Basses in a 4-season climate but wood is not all that flexible. The air conditioner sucks out the humidity. The heater dries up the air. The Bass expands and contracts slightly with these changes. If it rains one day at 100% humidity and the next day or two it's down to 20% a Bass could easily split if exposed to these sudden changes.

Regulating the air for a bass is no different than regulating the air for a person. If this is not done where you live, then you will become a sick child along side of your cracked up bass.

Stick a nice humidifier in the room and keep the humidity around 40%. You don't need dampits, pampering or pacifiers. Your bass will be fine and all you have to do is refill the tank every few days. A humidifier seems reasonable me, but I won't use a dampit.

KSB - Ken Smith said:

I don't know what kind of experience you have with Basses in a 4-season climate but wood is not all that flexible. The air conditioner sucks out the humidity. The heater dries up the air. The Bass expands and contracts slightly with these changes. If it rains one day at 100% humidity and the next day or two it's down to 20% a Bass could easily split if exposed to these sudden changes.

Regulating the air for a bass is no different than regulating the air for a person. If this is not done where you live, then you will become a sick child along side of your cracked up bass.

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Bravo! I also hardly consider running a humdifier as extreme pampering. The basses for which such care is appropriate and warranted are exactly the ones I wish to own-- you know-- fully carved.

Controlling our climate can hardly be considered extreme pampering. Having sufficient humidity in the air is hardly a luxury that should be reserved solely for our material possessions. Our bodies benefit from it as well. Our mucous membranes are much more efficient at keeping out nasty organisms among other things. During this time of year the RH in my apartment averages about 32% and lower (without intervention). And just the other day when it rained, it was all the way up to 65% (with the windows closed!). By humidifying my apartment up to about 45%, the difference between the two extremes is much less - and less likely to stress or damage any instruments.

I can physically notice it when the RH level reaches 35% or less. There are many signs the body gives indicating that it would be more comfortable at a higher humidity. When I keep my humidity more or less stable at 45% year-round, I notice that I hardly ever get sick and I always feel great. Waking up in the mornings is the most glaring example for me. So again, optimum humidity isn't just good for your bass, it's also good for your body!

-1 to Dampits
+1 to a good ol' bucket o' water

*Shrugs* To each his own. Too much work for me, and I've never had a problem. I doubt Stradivari had a humidifier in the house...

drurb said:

Bravo! I also hardly consider running a humdifier as extreme pampering. The basses for which such care is appropriate and warranted are exactly the ones I wish to own-- you know-- fully carved.

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Doc, you and Ken live out east where the humidity is crazy. You've got those hot steamy summers outside and your air conditioning running inside, drying things out. You heat during the winters, when things are pretty dry anyway. Your instruments are going through some humidity swings that a lot of us in other parts of the world just don't see. As you know, it's not necessarily the degree of humidity that causes problems, it's the changes in humidity that make wood move.

I'm a woodworker and quite sensitive to how wood moves. My bass hardly budges with any of the weather changes in my neck of the woods, here in the middle of the continent. I would describe the movement on the bass as practically non-existent (in my house at the height of winter a 10-inch wide solid yellow pine panel in a frame and panel cabinet door shrinks in width a little more than a sixteenth-of-an-inch compared to its summer width.) In my mind, in my situation, a humidifier causes more trouble (due to the hospitable environment you're making for molds and other microbial bad guys) than it's worth.

Ken's right on the money about Dampits, though. How could a Dampit possibly compete with the atmosphere? It's ridiculous.

I can see where toman is coming from. My bass is in and out of the car, club, concert hall, church, teaching studio, other people's homes, etc everyday. I'm not going to take 30min acclimating to every room I'm in. There just isn't time.

That said I do think it is worthwhile, for you and your bass, to keep your home at a reasonable humidity level. The talk of 60% humidity in the winter sounds really extreme to me though I'm no expert. At least in Chicago all of my windows would have a good layers of ice and condensation on them if I did that. I aim for 35%-40% in my apartment. I look at that as a nice compromise to the various places my bass will go throughout the day. From what I've heard Damon is right on about the changes in humidity being a bogger issue than the level itself.

The only time I'll use a Dampit is if I am away from my bass for a day or two. I was out of town last year around Thanksgiving for a few days and I couldn't tend to my humidifiers. The humidity of my apartment dropped to 28%. I had my bass in the case with a dampit. I'd like to think it helped and the humidity was a little higher in there.

Damon Rondeau said:

Doc, you and Ken live out east where the humidity is crazy. You've got those hot steamy summers outside and your air conditioning running inside, drying things out. You heat during the winters, when things are pretty dry anyway. Your instruments are going through some humidity swings that a lot of us in other parts of the world just don't see. As you know, it's not necessarily the degree of humidity that causes problems, it's the changes in humidity that make wood move.

I'm a woodworker and quite sensitive to how wood moves. My bass hardly budges with any of the weather changes in my neck of the woods, here in the middle of the continent. I would describe the movement on the bass as practically non-existent (in my house at the height of winter a 10-inch wide solid yellow pine panel in a frame and panel cabinet door shrinks in width a little more than a sixteenth-of-an-inch compared to its summer width.) In my mind, in my situation, a humidifier causes more trouble (due to the hospitable environment you're making for molds and other microbial bad guys) than it's worth.

Ken's right on the money about Dampits, though. How could a Dampit possibly compete with the atmosphere? It's ridiculous.

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I agree and never intended to suggest that everyone should use a humidifier. I thought it was self-evident that one should be used only when it is required. If your hygrometer tells you that the humidity is staying in the desirable range, then, of course, there's no reason for any intervention. As to molds and other microbials, I'm sure sensitive to that issue. My whole-house humidifier is of the drip-panel type that does not store any water. The evaporative humidifier I use in the room with the bass is treated with a shot of an anti-microbial every time it is filled. I, too, have remarked on the futility of using a dampit when the bass is not in the case. I go further though and won't even use one with the bass in the case. Damp sponge and zip-lock bag for me.

By the way, summer is no problem here. With the AC running, the indoor humidity hovers in the mid-40s. What many people in the northeast US miss is the fact that it is the spring that can be deadly. During April/May, when neither AC nor heat is required, we get those crystal-clear days with temperatures in the 70's. The humidity can plummet into the mid and low 30s on days like that. I make sure not to pack up the humidifier until late spring/early summer.

I consider all of this a labor of love.

toman said:

*Shrugs* To each his own. Too much work for me, and I've never had a problem. I doubt Stradivari had a humidifier in the house...

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http://weather.yahoo.com/climo/ITXX0025_f.html

I suspect he didn't need one.

I live in a fairly humid and stable climate, but i do use a dampit occasionally when the relative humidity gets down around 40 percent (it's usually bewteen 50 and 65 percent), just to lessen the change. The bass is usually inside my trunk, but not in the bag, when it's at home.

When I lived in eastern North America I used dampits quite a lot during winters to regulate against the dryness. I believe it was necessary when the change from summer to winter was so extreme, and I never had anything worse than a popped seam to deal with.

fingers said:

I can see where toman is coming from. My bass is in and out of the car, club, concert hall, church, teaching studio, other people's homes, etc everyday. I'm not going to take 30min acclimating to every room I'm in. There just isn't time.

That said I do think it is worthwhile, for you and your bass, to keep your home at a reasonable humidity level. The talk of 60% humidity in the winter sounds really extreme to me though I'm no expert. At least in Chicago all of my windows would have a good layers of ice and condensation on them if I did that. I aim for 35%-40% in my apartment. I look at that as a nice compromise to the various places my bass will go throughout the day. From what I've heard Damon is right on about the changes in humidity being a bogger issue than the level itself.

The only time I'll use a Dampit is if I am away from my bass for a day or two. I was out of town last year around Thanksgiving for a few days and I couldn't tend to my humidifiers. The humidity of my apartment dropped to 28%. I had my bass in the case with a dampit. I'd like to think it helped and the humidity was a little higher in there.

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+1

Like most of us, I don't take any chances. I've heard too many stories (and seen too many pictures) of damage to basses to NOT be anal about monitoring the humidity in my place--year round. I turn on my humidifier when my humidity drops below 40%, and I try to keep it between (at least) 30-40 in the winter.

Dampits have worked for me, but I only tend to use them in certain situations and in a certain way. I'll have them in the case (just in case) usually, but most of the time, I'll use them when I have to take long trips with the bass in the car or when I might have to leave the bass at home during the winter for longer than a couple of days. When I use them, I only wet the top half of the Dampit. I wring them out like crazy and it's worked well. The humidification might be minimal, but it's enough when I'm driving 6 hours to NYC. I've also found that the dry half of the Dampit helps prevent (for me) the drip problems alot of people have. I've also found that it helps to have a great case--really. I wouldn't trade my Reunion Blues case for anything. It really helps, humidity-wise.

IMHO

I use four dampits. I use them like this:

a) My bass stays in the case.
b) My dampits get soaked and squeezed before they're in the bass.
c) That happens most days in the winter.

I'm don't like repairing flat-backs with braces moving one way while back moved another. Humidification is key. I can't use a humidifier.

To each their own.

...and Sam, if you tell me they work I believe you 100%. You know your business. My opinion on Dampits is based more on theory than practice. As I mentioned in my post, I'm coming from a part of the world where wood movement just isn't much of an issue for anyone (for flatback owners, though? Dunno -- don't know any.) I suspect that's what's going on with toman, too...

I've had discussions with the great luthier Mike Shank about this very topic. Mike believes, based on his experience, that instruments that are highly pampered tend to be more likely to have problems in the event of drastic humidity changes than instruments that aren't. He told me about an orchestra section where most of the members kept humidifiers in their instrument closets. One year, a snow storm prevented anyone from getting to the humidifiers to refill them. All of the instruments in closets with humidifiers developed cracks when the water ran out. All of the instruments in the closets without humidifiers survived just fine. I wouldn't call the story definitive but it lends anecdotal weight to his claim.

My '32 Juzek spent 30 years in someone's closet before I bought it. It was never taken care of. I never had to do anything special as far as humidity goes. It could take overnight 30 point drops in humidity and never have a problem. My '74 Juzek cracked down the front plate during one humidity drop (the cracking sounded like a ice falling off of the roof) and my '28 popped a couple of seams last year when our in house humidifier went into reset mode and the humidity dropped from 40 to 20 percent in a couple of hours (both basses were repaired and were just fine).

I keep a digital hygrometer in my house and watch that the humidity stays above 30% in the bass room. Most of the time, in the winter, it runs 35-40%. I don't have a separate humidifier but if our in-house humidifier can't keep the humidity above 30%, I'll go out and get one. I've never used dampits. Mike told me they were worthless so I never bothered. I've never had trouble with transporting a bass in the car and I fairly routinely have a bass in the car for up to 6-10 hours on some days.

mark

calivox said:

I've had discussions with the great luthier Mike Shank about this very topic. Mike believes, based on his experience, that instruments that are highly pampered tend to be more likely to have problems in the event of drastic humidity changes than instruments that aren't.

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Now I can save money by no longer performing preventative maintenance on my cars. They ought to be more durable and last longer last longer that way!