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Double Bass Foot vol control advice please

Roger Davis

Roger Davis

May 24, 2006
942
602
England
#1
I would like to find a foot operated volume control. Not the usual graduated pedal but a switch that flips between two preset volumes. One for playing and one for a higher vol for solos.

I have a two channel Clarus into a 12" Wizzy so I could use an A/B box but I don't want the extra cable.

Can anyone help, please.
 
#2
I know that sounds like a good idea, but the best way to achieve your goal (hear me in my solos) is to develop a better physical approach to the instrument. Getting a more projecting sound isn't about turning up the amp.
 
#3
totally. If you put your mind to it you'll find a quality set up like the one you have really translates your dynamics. Try setting the amp at a highish volume; when you accompany, you won't have to pluck so hard. When you solo, you can take advantage of the higher volume setting. You may even enjoy not having to exert yourself as you've been while accompanying.
 
#4
adbass said:
Try setting the amp at a highish volume; when you accompany, you won't have to pluck so hard. When you solo, you can take advantage of the higher volume setting. You may even enjoy not having to exert yourself as you've been while accompanying.
Click to expand...

Eeek. With all due respect I wholeheartedly disagree. Get a big full sound acoustically when comping and experiment with your approach to get the solo sound you want acoustically.

For myself I achieve this though playing with the side of my index finger for comping them switching a little more perpendicular when soloing and using two fingers. This approach gets a little more cutting tone for soloing. Everyone has to experiment with what works for them though. Just don't rely on the amp to do the work that you hands should be doing.
 
#7
I usually don't come to this side of the house but I just had to make a comment. Not to detract from the comments of technique, but you might want to just look for a Clean Boost Pedal. It's essentially a pedal that gives a nice clean gain usually up to +25 dB depending on the pedal. Essentially, it's the signal you give it plus some number of dB greater. Volume pedals are really more about taking volume away.
 
#9
Roger Davis said:
I would like to find a foot operated volume control. Not the usual graduated pedal but a switch that flips between two preset volumes. One for playing and one for a higher vol for solos.

I have a two channel Clarus into a 12" Wizzy so I could use an A/B box but I don't want the extra cable.

Can anyone help, please.
Click to expand...


I suggest using a pedal like the Boss GEB7 and instead of using the EQ part of it, using the volume control that is switchable via a footswitch - cost $70. I'm a big fan of this pedal. I won't play my Pbass without it.

Another approach is to use a sansamp bass driver and simply use it as a volume boost or the Radial Tonebone and use its "boost" feature, but that is more expensive (~$200).

Basically, any pedal that has a footswitchable volume control should do the trick. However, for me, the most transparent is the Boss (especially for the price) or the Radial.
 
#10
I hear you fingers. Just to let you know I put my hands to work everytime i play. I got thickass calouses on fingers of both hands and a big purple spot on my right middle finger from a blood blister I got last weekend. However, at some point, the amp has to do some work for us. That's what it's there for.

Back to the thread: If you're plucking as hard as you can while accompanying and just cutting through, and want to be louder when you solo, the only thing you can do is turn up, right? I understand that changing the RH approach can accentuate ones attack, which would help cut through the band in some situations; that's a good thought. In my experience those subtleties get lost (unless you're playing with guys who are sensitive to that kind of thing) and it comes down to sheer volume.

on the other hand, the guys in the band should respect the bassist and accompany him/her when it comes time for the bass solo -- a point i always find frustrating. It may be a matter of getting your bandmates to learn how to accompany you as a bassplayer, which may not come immediately to them.

The down side to the advice that I gave earlier is, as you pointed out, some loss of acoustic volume (not necessarily tone, as I retorted) and also that by the end of the night as the players fatigue everything gets louder and you end up plucking just as hard when you accompany as when you solo, thus defeating the purpose of using the amp to truly amplify your acoustic dynamics.
 
#11
adbass said:
Try setting the amp at a highish volume; when you accompany, you won't have to pluck so hard. When you solo, you can take advantage of the higher volume setting. You may even enjoy not having to exert yourself as you've been while accompanying.
Click to expand...
fingers said:
Eeek. With all due respect I wholeheartedly disagree.
Click to expand...
Me too. Sometimes I like to pull pretty hard when comping, if that's what the pulse and feel of that song needs. Backing off of your RH attack is gonna change the envelope and decay on each pizz pluck, and sometimes that's not what the song needs.
fingers said:
Get a big full sound acoustically when comping and experiment with your approach to get the solo sound you want acoustically.
Click to expand...
Makes sense to me.

I was taught that if you can’t hear every instrument in an ensemble, chances are you’re playing too loud. Now you just gotta convince your bandmates to honor that too if you want to try and maintain a sort of collective equilibrium, especially when you are soloing. It's their turn to play a supportive role, and/or to be the "response" to your "call."

What if you want to incorporate a range of dynamics into your solo? And I don’t mean boosting your volume so that you’re louder than everybody else. The other guys and gals gotta come down, give you room to breathe, swell and fade, create tension and release.

I kinda like it in a trad jazz setting when it’s time for me to solo, and everybody else comes down. I even leave space for a bar or two sometimes before I start my solo so it gets REAL soft. Even the conversation at the bar gets quieter. People look up and look around. Good. Now I know I’ve got their attention. At least for a brief instant. How long I hold that attention then depends at least in part on the strength of expression in my solo. Also depends on what's showing on the flat panel TV over the bar.
 
#12
Guys, thanks for your helpful replies.

Ed, adbass, fingers, I do use my fingers to achieve a different volume/tone/inflection when I'm in a small group/small room setting. However when I'm with a seven piece Dixie outfit on a big stage in a largish hall I have to turn round to my amp and put some extra vol on to make my solo heard. Due to limitations in our PA speakers the bass does not go through them and so everything comes from the back. I can't put too much vol on when comping or my colleagues complain, particularly the trom who stands in font of me.

So, rakiksey & Jostein congratulations on reading the exam paper correctly and answering the question. I'm playing about with an LS-2 at the moment and it seems to help, although I do detect a slight tonal change as the signal passes through it. I will get a GEB7 and try that ($140 in UK!). This will have the advantage that I will have the option of modding the EQ for the solo as well as the vol - it could for example lift it in the middle.

bolo, you seem to play with far kinder musos and audiences than I experience. Interesting, however, your point regarding leaving the first two bars out. I do that from time to time and it works! I remember playing to 3,000 Germans in their town square - Speyer, I think. We were playing 'Dans les Rue d'Antibes' by Bechet. It came to my solo, I walked right to the front of the stage - almost off the apron - waited two bars and gave it to them. They went wild; you don't forget days like that! I think the local wine helped and we had very good sound on that tour.
 
#13
There are several volume pedals that work with a minimum volume setting. Boss make a few. The minimum volume setting is your comping level and you step down for full volume.

If you want to make a footswitch box, all you need is a 1M pot to pad the signal down and a DPDT footswitch: wire it so that when engaged te pot pads the level to comping levels, and when bypassed gives you full volume.

Another option is to patch a pedal EQ in your efx loop. Some EQs come with a general level control, so you can use this to boost or cut the general level either for solo or for comping. You also have in this option the ability to EQ either solo or comping tone.
 
#14
Roger, thanks for your kind words. To you and adbass, I apologize for my self-centered rant yesterday.

I was reflecting on this later and realized that we all are in different gigging situations, with different musical tastes, and different views re: comping and soloing. It's narrow-minded to think that other's requirements and views should always align with mine. Sorry that I did little to speak to your original question.

You know what I like - Some of the trad bluegrass groups (that are almost ubiquituous in my parts, especially in the summer) use only one mic on stage. You'll see 4, 5, or 6 musicians playing acoustic (no amps) in a kind of semi-circle around a single mic. Whoever's taking the solo steps up to the mic. The others step back and to the side if needed to make room. It makes for a neat kind of perpetual dance as they take turns soloing, stepping forward to the mic, then stepping back. Their balance out in the house is typically excellent. I imagine it's excellent on stage too. Definitely a collaborative approach, physically and sonically.
 
#15
Roger Davis said:
Ed, adbass, fingers, I do use my fingers to achieve a different volume/tone/inflection when I'm in a small group/small room setting. However when I'm with a seven piece Dixie outfit on a big stage in a largish hall I have to turn round to my amp and put some extra vol on to make my solo heard.
Click to expand...
Dixie, huh? There's a first call player in my parts who slaps (think Milt Hinton) for his solos in this kind of a setting. It reduces the notes-per-minute ratio, but it jumps out at the audience a lot more.

I'm paraphrasing here, maybe butchering it, but I think Milt once explained his slap technique by saying something like "It makes for a helluva racket, and every once in a while the audience even hears a note come out."
 
#16
Certainly continue to do as you please. But two things -
1.GIGO - As Rufus Reid so eloquently puts it, if you have a thin, weak sound that doesn't project well acoustically, when you put it through an amplifier you get a LOUD thin weak sound that doesn't project well.

2. Your experience is your experience and mine is only mine BUT, I've played acoustically or with just a microphone on the bass in a wide range of venues, situations and ensembles (including a 14 piece big band).

But sure, I know everybody's tired of hearing it. All I can say is that the thing that helped me to get a warm centered swinging sound that projects WASN'T finding a volume pedal.
 
#17
Hey Roger,
I apologize in advance if this comes off a bit harsh.
But...
Volume and being heard are not neccessarily the same thing. If your band-mates want you to take solos then they should accompany you appropriately. The very nature of the sound of an acoustic bass does NOT get better with more volume. If the dynamic of the band is that all soloists "turn up" for their solos, then I think it is time for a little meeting regarding what is appropriate for accompanying in soloing situations. In most contexts with acoustic instruments, accompanying a soloist usually requires everyone to come down for the soloist, and then the soloist determines the volume based on onstage communication. I just don't believe a volume pedal will help you achieve your goal of being heard in the context you've described

just my $.02.

-J
 
#18
Devices (not only for solo vs. usual role, but can also be handy when switching from arco to pizz sounds/volumes/EQ:

-I agree with the suggestion Boss or generic 7 band Bass Graphic Eq box, you can preset volume and perhaps also consider altering the EQ to bring forth a more agreeable solo sound. It most directly meets your request and offers the bonus of a "solo EQ" as well as volume.

-Tonebone Bassbone; while it is shown mostly as a device to switch between instruments, if you plug in only one it will toggle between channel one (straight) and channel two, with its own volume and tone controls. It has other features but not be needed beyond the EQ referenced above.

-Volume pedals-- I've had good experience with Morley, I have a 10+ year old stereo version of of their volume pedal and also used one of the monster ones in the 70's. If memory serves, mine has a 1 megohm input impedance.
 
#20
Guys, thanks for taking the trouble to respond. For several years I have been turning the vol up on the amp to get a bit more for the solo. I simply want to do it by a pedal for convenience sake - no big deal, no rocket science.

I'll say this, though. Most solos are not 'just the same but louder'. They are a complete contrast to the walking straight ahead comping style. They are tricksier, busier and have triplets, double stops, higher up the fingerboard (so, thinner) and all sorts of other stuff. This will need a bit of extra volume to assist the inevitable lack of robustness in the fingers.

I have been playing for a while and think I know of what I speak.
 

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