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CITES - What every bass player should know

#161
devo_stevo said:
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Not basses, but appropriate for this discussion. Sad days we live in...
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I can vouch for this one, they are both fellow bandmates of mine (I also play bagpipes) who were competing at Highland Games over the weekend. They had paperwork but someone at F&G decided to play hardball and confiscated their pipes, one set made in 1936 (actually belong to Cam's father who was Pipe Major in the Scots Guard and then Piper for the Queen for 4 years) and the other set were made in 1958, both well before the ivory bad was put in place and trust me, the pipes don't look anywhere near "new" so there was no mistaking that they are old pipes. The good news is the pipes were returned but not before they boys were threatened that they might "never" get them back, thanks to an overwhelming response to a petition drive and media exposure, F&G relented and returned them.
 
#163
I am fully in support of measures to save endangered species, but stopping the movement of restricted woods and materials already in existence seems a bit of a sticky wicket. On one hand the instrument with the offending material already exists and confiscating it is a purposeless waste of the material. On the other, if you were to sell an instrument across a border with a vintage that had a restricted or endangered material you'd technically be trafficking it wouldn't you? What about a piano with ivory keys? What's the story with those these days?

Very shaky ground. I have a classical with South African blackwood neck that was made here in Australia in the late 50s early 60s. While this wood is not yet restricted it's apparently one that's borderline endangered. Obviously nobody would inform me if it made the list. I'd have to find out about it of my own volition if I wanted to move to a different country or tour.
 
#165
Thanks OP for bringing this topic to our attention. I know this is probably not what some people are hoping to hear as a solution, but for my own sanity I would avoid bringing anything remotely possible to be considered 'contraband' across any international border. If that meant investing in a cheaper but effective touring instrument, then that's what I would do. That might not even be a bad idea for touring anyway--better to lose a beater bass to mishandling than my favorite instrument.

If I was moving to a new country, I'm not exactly sure what I would do though.
 
#166
skwee said:
Thanks OP for bringing this topic to our attention. I know this is probably not what some people are hoping to hear as a solution, but for my own sanity I would avoid bringing anything remotely possible to be considered 'contraband' across any international border. If that meant investing in a cheaper but effective touring instrument, then that's what I would do. That might not even be a bad idea for touring anyway--better to lose a beater bass to mishandling than my favorite instrument.

If I was moving to a new country, I'm not exactly sure what I would do though.
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From my own experience of working on major concert productions, artists going overseas are sometimes not bringing their own gear for a myriad of reasons and are sourcing them in the countries they perform, as their road manager calls ahead to each venue in each country, months in advance to hire sound production companies based in those cities to source the needed gear. Gone are the days of 70's 80's (read pre 2008) mega buck touring with buku gear in flight cases following the band all over the globe. Hence whatever gear that exists in these countries that were shipped there to players in those countries, that were there before the screws were put in like CITES, are usually tapped for use by these sound companies to provide these touring artists. In addition some guitarists will buy a cheap knock off made by a trusted luthier and bring that on tour. I was shown backstage before the show, one $100 Strat made in the U.S. south belonging to a guitar player of a major hit making band chock full of session icons. The guitar played and sounded well, in my hands, it just didn't have "Fender" on the headstock and it was 100% knock-off.

Playing to a packed arena of thousands, who could tell from 50 feet what was in the guy's hands and if they could detect from the PA, that it was not the real article?
 
#168
FretNoMore said: ↑
Nowadays it may not even be live music you're watching, so no need for instruments that actually work. :)

Yeah you mean like what happened with ELO? These days there might be backing vocals added at the mixer to blend with the ongoing vocals onstage like when American Idol goes on tour. it's called a plus-1. You will see it on tv performances, Letterman, Leno/Fallon, sometimes GMA. Backups that are too many for the number of singers on stage will be mixed in.

For the most part, the musicians are actually playing their instruments. Their amps are mic'd and line checked. They would not be on the tour as dead weight. Paying for airline tickets and hotel rooms for a mannequin on stage is not on a producer's dream list. It also helps to watch the sound check to see that these musicians are actually playing their instruments. I see it all the time.

But during the Superbowl halftime, this is where you'd be 99.999% correct.
 
#169
Yes, I think it's mainly a TV thing actually. Artists/bands promoting their new album and they are not even trying to make it look real, instruments on stage with neither audio nor power cables attached.

OK, that was a bit OT, now back to the regular programming. :)
 
#170
FretNoMore said:
Yes, I think it's mainly a TV thing actually. Artists/bands promoting their new album and they are not even trying to make it look real, instruments on stage with neither audio nor power cables attached.

OK, that was a bit OT, now back to the regular programming. :)
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I've worked on American Idol live concert arena productions and the plus 1 is used there as well. Same as the tv show, no way can a group of moving and dancing "stars" sing in tune and with such harmony clusters while doing cartwheels on stage. Plus there were no back up singers on stage with them. So where did the extra voices come from?

Meanwhile back to YIKES! er i mean CITES.
 
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#171
skwee said:
...I would avoid bringing anything...considered 'contraband' across any international border. If that meant investing in a cheaper but effective touring instrument, then that's what I would do. That might not even be a bad idea for touring anyway...
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Until the permitting of instruments made with recycled or stump wood is more transparent and efficient, this is very good advice, and is echoed by Roger Sadowsky in his comments on dalbergia nigra as a fingerboard wood. This has probably been referenced before, but here it is again:

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I own a Sadowsky NYC 4-string with a dalbergia nigra fingerboard. I have not tried to travel internationally with it, but it has passed the agricultural inspection in and out of Hawaii. :cool:
 
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#172
marko57 said:
I can vouch for this one, they are both fellow bandmates of mine (I also play bagpipes) who were competing at Highland Games over the weekend. They had paperwork but someone at F&G decided to play hardball and confiscated their pipes...
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These actions by Border Customs (not U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service according to HuffPo), are ridiculous, and are no doubt causing unpleasant repercussions within the hallowed halls of the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

Strangely enough, getting noticed internationally for doing something very stupid is not what government officials enjoy.
 
#173
bass_case said:
When did Fender switch from Brazilian to Indian rosewood? I heard it was a gradual process starting in the late 60s, so if have a 71 rosewood fretless P neck it could be either one?

Many of these trees are common in S. Florida, mahogany is planted by the state along roads.
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Brazilian Rosewood started being replaced by Indian rosewood in 1966 along with adding bindings when CBS owned Fender started making changes. I have had 2 basses shipped into Canada without issues....touch wood! No pun intended ;)
 
#177
smperry said:
Thanks for reporting the spam guys, but please don't quote...these bots use image trackers so it's good not to quote them.
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Doh! I knew that, but forgot. Do not quote the spambots. Thanks for straightening things out here.
 
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#179
I have read several of these posts and am just amazed. What something like CITES really exemplifies is how small minorities of engaged activists run our nation. If you surveyed 1000 people on the street about whether musical instrument manufacture should be regulated based upon the kind of wood used, then you'd get about 950, "no," answers. If you asked the same 1000 people if the use and transport of already built instruments should be regulated in the same manner, up to and including instrument confiscation, then you'd get about 1000, "no," answers. But, the majority view means little anymore.... It is time for a very long petition and other civil measures....
 

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