• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

love of Ampeg and other Scroll Basses, Part 2

So it means only LaBella will work fine? No suitable D'Addario or other developers strings on the market right now?

By the way, I can't find right La Bella on this site. Can you plz give me direct link to this strings or tell me their full name.

Yes, the LaBellas are the only flatwound strings that you can buy directly, which are long enough to fit an AEB-1. These special Very Long Scale (that's what they are calling them) are only available from Bass Strings Online.

These are the ones that you want:
Invalid Link Removed

In the selection boxes, choose "42 Inch Winding" and "Top Load Bridge".

Actually, if you write to Jason, the owner of Bass Strings Online, tell him you want a set to fit an Ampeg. He'll put together a mixed set for you, with 40 Inch Winding strings for the E and G, and 42 Inch Winding strings for the A and D. That's the best fit for an AEB-1.

D'Addario will make them for you, but you have to order 150 sets!

Nobody else that I know of makes flatwounds this long.
 
Maybe you can do inquiries at a company that makes strings for upright bass? Thomastik-Infeld springs to mind.

Yeah, I've already tried that. There are only a few companies around who do flatwounds AND have string lathes long enough to make the Ampeg-length. Flatwounds are fussy enough to make that they aren't going to set up for small runs. It isn't worth their while. They want large minimum orders. LaBella is about the only string maker who will make up custom-order flats in small batches. And it can be a long wait for custom orders from them.

The thing is, the market for these strings is tiny. Up until the recent introduction of the Very Long Scale LaBellas, the special order Chromes that I have were the only strings available anywhere that would fit Ampeg AEB-1's. And yet, over 15 years, I've sold a total of maybe 60 sets. And it's winding down.

I'm getting low on my stash of the special Chromes, and I can't really justify ordering more. I'd have to spend about $2500, and it would probably take 25 years to sell them off. So, I'm very happy with the BassStringsOnline/LaBella introduction. That's what I'm recommending to Ampeg owners from now on.

My own Scroll Basses, up through my Series IV models, use the special Ampeg-length strings. That's why I'm keeping a reserve stash of the Chromes. However, all my newer models including the AMB-2 and the upcoming ones, use the more common Super Long Scale length.

By the way, Thomastik-Infeld made up a few sets of Ampeg-length flatwounds for me back in the 1990's. I tried them on my early AEB-2's and a few Ampeg AEB-1's, and didn't like them. They were too flexible and rubbery for my own taste, and my customers didn't like them either. I also didn't like the sound of them through the AEB-1's mystery pickup. So, I never went any further with trying to order batches from them.

Similar thing with Rotosound. I didn't like them; too harsh sounding.

Unfortunately, the economics aren't there to pay for experiments.
 
Last edited:
I think I've seen pictures of that AEB-1 a while back, although I don't remember the serial number. I'd be curious to see inside it, to see how someone did that repositioning of the tailpiece. Because, in that position, the tailpiece studs are going down through the diaphragm of the mystery pickup! Maybe they just drilled holes in the diaphragm, and the studs pass down through the holes? Or they trimmed off the back inch of the diaphragm? I'd be interested to know what they did, and how it affected the mystery pickup's sound.

If you are going to do this mod to an AEB-1, to allow common strings, I recommend that you mount the tailpiece up on the back edge of the body. There, you've got some good structure to attach to. And that will get the strings into the Super Long scale length, like the AMB-1's.

The way someone modded this AEB-1 is too far forward, in my opinion. I guess they wanted it to use standard Long Scale (Fender length) strings. What's done is done though, and the bass otherwise looks very nice and original.

I hope they did something to attach the two tailpiece posts into the body. They normally will just fall out with no strings or tailpiece.
 
I think I've seen pictures of that AEB-1 a while back, although I don't remember the serial number. I'd be curious to see inside it, to see how someone did that repositioning of the tailpiece. Because, in that position, the tailpiece studs are going down through the diaphragm of the mystery pickup! Maybe they just drilled holes in the diaphragm, and the studs pass down through the holes? Or they trimmed off the back inch of the diaphragm? I'd be interested to know what they did, and how it affected the mystery pickup's sound.

If you are going to do this mod to an AEB-1, to allow common strings, I recommend that you mount the tailpiece up on the back edge of the body. There, you've got some good structure to attach to. And that will get the strings into the Super Long scale length, like the AMB-1's.

The way someone modded this AEB-1 is too far forward, in my opinion. I guess they wanted it to use standard Long Scale (Fender length) strings. What's done is done though, and the bass otherwise looks very nice and original.

I hope they did something to attach the two tailpiece posts into the body. They normally will just fall out with no strings or tailpiece.

I think string length tension from tailpiece to bridge really affects the sound
 
What is a scroll bass?

A great question.....with no real solid answer. To us Ampeg fans, a Scroll Bass is a bass that has a scroll-style headstock. That is, a headstock with the curled scroll up on the head, similar to a violin or an upright bass. Our beloved Ampegs are probably the most well known horizontal basses with this style headstock, but there are others.

There are also some basses which have a scroll-style curl in the upper horn of the body. These are also often referred to as Scroll Basses. That's fine; nobody owns the term Scroll Bass.

On this particular thread, Scroll Basses means the original Ampegs with the scroll headstocks and the signature F-holes through the body, and other basses which have a similar visual design. Such as the ones I build and some of the other companies which have made semi-replicas over the years. And a few brave souls who have built their own.
 
I think string length tension from tailpiece to bridge really affects the sound

Yes it does, in a subtle way. Increasing the length of string between the bridge and tailpiece does not change the overall tension on the string. The actual string tension is determined by the string's construction and mass, the scale length between the bridge and nut, and the note it is tuned to.

Adding extra string length behind the bridge (or up at the headstock) increases what I call the snap of the string. It's the acceleration rate of the string when you let go of it. Think of it this way: the extra length of string is like having a longer length spring. There is more length of string to stretch when you pull on it. If you have two springs, a long one and a short one, and you pull on them with the same number of pounds of force, the longer spring will stretch farther before you reach that level of force. When you let go of them, the longer spring will accelerate through a longer distance and reach a higher speed. It will make a louder snap.

And that's what happens when you pluck the string. Compare, say, a Fender style bridge, which has about an inch of string length between the saddle and the tailblock, and an Ampeg AEB-1, which has about 4" of string between the saddles and the tailpiece. Assuming that the strings are the same, and the scale lengths are the same, the actual tension in the strings will be the same. When you pull sideways on the string, you'll find that, with the same amount of force on your fingertip, the Ampeg string will be pulled farther to the side, in distance. This is because the extra length of string behind the bridge is allowing the string to stretch farther. Even though the string tension and the fingertip force is the same. So, when you release the Ampeg string, it has a harder louder snap.

You can feel this increased snap when you release the string, and it also gets picked up by the pickup and sent to the amp. It exaggerates the attack curve of the note, putting a larger pulse on the beginning of the note. That's the change in the sound. Now, if you play with a very light touch, and play fast notes, you may not hear any difference between the Fender and the Ampeg. You may not care. But, if you play old school style, with heavy plucking and longer notes, that pulse can be an important part of the sound.

There's a funny psychological angle to this too, in terms of how the string feels when you increase the snap. Some players will describe it as "higher tension", because they feel the extra pop. Others will describe it as "lower tension" because the string feels softer to pull on. But, the actual tension is the same.

That's why, whenever this subject comes up on the main TB threads, it usually ends up in a long bar fight argument. Because nobody can agree what "tension" means.

Anyway, that's why Ampeg put the extra string length back there. They wanted that extra snap, similar to the Baby Basses. And that's why I use the extra string length on my Scroll Basses too. At least, up until now. My upcoming new AEB-2 has a new improved version of the mechanical percussive pickup, and will not require the special super-duper long strings. In my twisted engineering brain, I've come up with a better way of creating that pulse in the attack curve. No electronics involved......
 
I will, I will.....I've been taking pictures of #990 in process, but I haven't gotten around to organizing and posting them. I hope that you guys realize that these days I am honestly working 12-14 hours a day, 7 days a week. Hardly any breaks. Necks and parts for my Luthier clients, new Scroll Basses, Ampeg restorations. I'm plowing through a long backlog, and making steady progress.

Right now in my shop:
AMUB-2 #005 went out last week; satin black with brushed aluminum hardware
SaltyMonkey's AMB-2 #006 is almost done; I just need to finish painting the neck and get some of the hardware plated.
The last two AUB-2 Series IV's #075 and #076 are getting painted.
The next two Trussart AMB-2T's are nearing completion.
I just finished the engineering and machining of several new fanned fret guitar necks for Mike Lipe. Plus many other necks for him.
I'm piling up orders for my new cartridge truss rod assembly, a top-line unit which I'm selling to other pro Luthiers. I'm setting up to get them in steady production, some parts CNC cut by my buddy Raul Ruelas across the hall. They are going to be popular.
I'm finishing up rebuilding and modifying a long string-winding lathe for Guadalupe Strings; machining up new spindles and parts for it.
Plus orders for pickups, hardware, partial necks, and truss rod installations.....and several new Luthier clients.

Oh yeah, and I'm trying to get #990 finished, too!

By the way, I have a fretless AMUB-2 which I'm just starting to paint in Tobacco Sunburst. The customer who ordered it may be dropping out. Not sure yet. If any of you are interested, you know where to reach me. No price or sale discussions here on TB.
 
Hi Bruce, I saw the Richard Thompson trio in Boston last week. Bassist played a lovely 60's vintage looking Jazz and then pulled out an Ampeg Scroll bass with a body mounted bridge. Tone was big and deep. Could not see it clearly from my seat, but the headstock was certainly a scroll.
Do you know this bass?
=JR=
 
Hi Bruce, I saw the Richard Thompson trio in Boston last week. Bassist played a lovely 60's vintage looking Jazz and then pulled out an Ampeg Scroll bass with a body mounted bridge. Tone was big and deep. Could not see it clearly from my seat, but the headstock was certainly a scroll.
Do you know this bass?
=JR=
That is Taras Prodaniuk and this is what he says re gear on Beesweb , Richard Thompson's website.
I brought three instruments out on the road with me on this tour: a 1972 Fender Jazz bass that I've had for years, a 60's Ampeg AUB-1 Fretless Bass (that is a bit of a bastard in that it's not original at all but sounds fantastic) and a Lakland Precision Bass as a backup, which will be staying home on this UK run. Amplification-wise I use an Ampro SVT Pro 2 and a Epifani 4X10 speaker cabinet.
 
Thanks for the info about Taras Prodaniuk! I don't believe that I've ever met him, but it turns out that he lives about 30 miles from me. When he gets back from the touring, I'll try to contact him and invite him to visit the Secret Underground Scroll Bass Lab. I only saw one picture of the neck of his AUB-1. It looks well-worn. The best kind.
 
Thanks for the info about Taras Prodaniuk! I don't believe that I've ever met him, but it turns out that he lives about 30 miles from me. When he gets back from the touring, I'll try to contact him and invite him to visit the Secret Underground Scroll Bass Lab. I only saw one picture of the neck of his AUB-1. It looks well-worn. The best kind.
Facebook friends with him. An excellent bass player and a genuinely nice guy.
Can you talk a bit about the Trussart AMB-2T? I have a Steelcaster bass as well as an AMUB-1....the combination is tempting although I am sure the cost is up there.
 
Facebook friends with him. An excellent bass player and a genuinely nice guy.


Can you talk a bit about the Trussart AMB-2T? I have a Steelcaster bass as well as an AMUB-1....the combination is tempting although I am sure the cost is up there.

First, back up on this thread to page 27, post #539, down towards the bottom of the page. That's where I introduced the AMB-2T with some pictures and a general description. James' official name for the bass is the SteelScrollPeg, but I still call it the AMB-2T. There are some more comments and posts in this thread, including a nice YouTube video of one of them that was at Chicago Music Exchange. It's now been sold, but CME's own page on it and the video are still up. I believe that they are planning on steadily getting them from James and I.

The plan is that they will be all different in color schemes and details of the engraving on the plates. I painted the first two in that Scary black/red scheme, but from now on, I'm shipping them to James in bare wood. I believe that the two I'm about to ship him will be a deep metallic blue with bright red in the F-holes, but that's his call.

I'll be glad to answer any other technical questions that you have, but any sales/price questions should go right to James.
 
First, back up on this thread to page 27, post #539, down towards the bottom of the page. That's where I introduced the AMB-2T with some pictures and a general description. James' official name for the bass is the SteelScrollPeg, but I still call it the AMB-2T. There are some more comments and posts in this thread, including a nice YouTube video of one of them that was at Chicago Music Exchange. It's now been sold, but CME's own page on it and the video are still up. I believe that they are planning on steadily getting them from James and I.

The plan is that they will be all different in color schemes and details of the engraving on the plates. I painted the first two in that Scary black/red scheme, but from now on, I'm shipping them to James in bare wood. I believe that the two I'm about to ship him will be a deep metallic blue with bright red in the F-holes, but that's his call.

I'll be glad to answer any other technical questions that you have, but any sales/price questions should go right to James.
Thanks Bruce!