The resurgence of the flatwound bass string

I play flatwounds and love them, but when I read talkbass.com I start to wonder how many of you guys truely know what is hot and what is not.....

I started playing in the year 2000 and I can probably count on my fingers the amount of local/regional players that I have personally witnessed using flatwounds. Even then, most were older guys playing classic rock, Beatles or Motown. The other younger guys were jazz musicians or latin musicians from Miami. South FL has one of the most diverse music scenes around, with plenty of immigrants and people from the North East and tons of musical styles that are perfectly suited for flats, so I'm wondering where you guys are seeing this flatwound resurgence? I moved to the Midwest recently and even the country, blues, etc musicians use rounds as far as I can see.

Not trying to rain on your thread, but I sometimes feel like there is talkbass.com and then there is the real world. A lot of talkbass users are also hobbyists just trying out stuff which is fine, but that doesn't always paint a clear picture because musicians that gig a lot typically don't have the luxury of doing these endless comparisons until they find the perfect combination. They go with the tried and true products that a million other guys use and don't feel the need to post about it on a forum.

HankHillWaluigi said:

Were flats even available in the 80's/90's?

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This question reminds me a little of younger players who think tubes are a modern invention

They have always been available. Roundwounds were a late 60s invention. Late 70s brought us groundwounds, half-rounds as well.

chilliwilli said:

I play flatwounds and love them, but when I read talkbass.com I start to wonder how many of you guys truely know what is hot and what is not.....

I started playing in the year 2000 and I can probably count on my fingers the amount of local/regional players that I have personally witnessed using flatwounds. Even then, most were older guys playing classic rock, Beatles or Motown. The other younger guys were jazz musicians or latin musicians from Miami. South FL has one of the most diverse music scenes around, with plenty of immigrants and people from the North East and tons of musical styles that are perfectly suited for flats, so I'm wondering where you guys are seeing this flatwound resurgence? I moved to the Midwest recently and even the country, blues, etc musicians use rounds as far as I can see.

Not trying to rain on your thread, but I sometimes feel like there is talkbass.com and then there is the real world. A lot of talkbass users are also hobbyists just trying out stuff which is fine, but that doesn't always paint a clear picture because musicians that gig a lot typically don't have the luxury of doing these endless comparisons until they find the perfect combination. They go with the tried and true products that a million other guys use and don't feel the need to post about it on a forum.

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I did national major label tours and now session work and I am in touch with a lot of pro players around the globe (heavy US focus in LA and Nashville though) and in studios a lot. In the real world, not on here.

Tons of guys now use flats on at least one bass and also rounds on others. You aren't raining on anyones parade, and not everyone here is a hobbyist either.

It is true that when you are on tour, you get so much free gear that it's kind of boring and you don't mess with it that much or think about it. Just go with what works. Once you get really into session work though, that changes and having a Pbass with flats is never a bad thing.

RustyAxe said:

I've been using flat wound strings since 1967. Never realized that they had disappeared, so never noticed a "resurgence".

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Did you ever, at any point in time, notice flat wounds became more difficult to find in stores? I heard a Joe Osborn interview where he talks about finally having to buy a new set of strings after 14 years and he had a hard time finding a set of replacement flat wounds. I don't know what year this happened in, but my guess is that it must have been in the early 80s or something.

My own personal experience with flat wound strings corroborates what Mr. Osborn said. I bought my first set of flat wounds in 1991. My bass teacher had told me that flat wounds sound more thumpy like an upright bass and that players like James Jamerson used to use them to get that sound that I loved. I immediately wondered why everyone doesn't use them and I knew that I had to get some. The music store that I was taking lessons out of didn't even carry flat wound strings at all. So I went and checked at Guitar Center and they had one set of flat wounds. When I say they had one set, I don't mean they just had one brand or just one gauge--I mean they had one set of flat wounds in the whole store. It was a set of Rotosounds with packaging that told me it must have been sitting on that shelf for about ten years. The packaging looked nothing like Rotosound's flat wounds look these days. I remember it being mostly black with some neon geometric shapes, kind of an early 80s design. And the gauge was so heavy, I had to file my A string nut slot to get it to fit. It was not a good experience. I would have killed for the La Bella 760FL flats that I use now.

get both?

In the early days the flats that were available were probably all of the thumpy variety like Pyramid and LaBella. Today, some flats (Ernie Ball, Daddario, Roto, etc) are almost as bright as rounds when new and thus are a lot more versatile than something like LaBella 1954's.

Thuddy Waters said:

Did you ever, at any point in time, notice flat wounds became more difficult to find in stores? I heard a Joe Osborn interview where he talks about finally having to buy a new set of strings after 14 years and he had a hard time finding a set of replacement flat wounds. I don't know what year this happened in, but my guess is that it must have been in the early 80s or something.

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I hardly played bass at all during the 80's ... too busy with my career, and I was playing a lot of guitar. I didn't really pick up the bass again (as in gigging in bands) until the 90's, and had no problem finding flats, but had to mail order them (yeah, mail ... not online!). As to the tone ... well, I find that flats start sounding good at about 3 or 4 years, and sound great for 10 more.

Doner Designs said:

are a lot more versatile than something like LaBella 1954's.

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as a flatwound user, and 1954's user, I can tell you that, if not for the gauge, the Jamerson are one of the brightest and scooped flats I've ever tried.
they thump a lot, have a great punch and woody tone, but they are actually bright, metallic, not as rounds, and with a nice scoop on the mids...

Chromes, for example, are bright like a roundwound when new, but then lose the metallic sound, and are more "woody".

RustyAxe said:

I didn't really pick up the bass again (as in gigging in bands) until the 90's, and had no problem finding flats, but had to mail order them (yeah, mail ... not online!).

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I wish I would have done that, but I didn't even know that was an option at the time. Just out of curiosity, where did you mail order from? Whose catalog was it?

Pier_ said:

as a flatwound user, and 1954's user, I can tell you that, if not for the gauge, the Jamerson are one of the brightest and scooped flats I've ever tried.
they thump a lot, have a great punch and woody tone, but they are actually bright, metallic, not as rounds, and with a nice scoop on the mids...

Chromes, for example, are bright like a roundwound when new, but then lose the metallic sound, and are more "woody".

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I like the 1954's including the thickness (and other LaBellas). They are much brighter than GHS or Pyramids, but to my ears they are not as bright as the others I mentioned. I guess they all mellow with age. I typically swap them once or twice a year.

I really like the new Cobalt Flats from Ernie Ball though I would prefer they be heavier gauge. They are definitely the brightest flat I have used and they have a little bit of that round wound growl to them as well.

I avoid rounds because of string noise and I'm used to, and prefer, the higher tension you get from most flats.

Thuddy Waters said:

I wish I would have done that, but I didn't even know that was an option at the time. Just out of curiosity, where did you mail order from? Whose catalog was it?

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Good grief man, that's more than 25 years ago! I really don't remember. (Can't remember much of the 70's, either!)

my band has two bass players so i've got to be the deep dark clean finger style fellow
i've had good experiences with roto 77s on a vintage mij squier bullet bass and la bellas on a g&l sb-2
the only pretty good flatwound imitators i've had were an early gibson grabber and an early L2000 both with pretty long in the tooth rounds

I'm convinced I'll never go back to roundwound strings again. As it has been repeatedly pointed out.. rounds just produce too much fret clatter and finger noise.. But, for me there is a expense-related factor involved: Fret wear. No dents in my frets, please! That's big-bucks and down-time, getting frets pulled, replaced, recrowned & polished. Better to just go proactive and sidestep all of that potential damage in the first place. And yes.. if you'll be needing more attack from your flats, then go with a pick and that will usually take care of it. D'Addario 'XL Chromes' (Light Gauge) on everything these days.

. .

Doner Designs said:

I really like the new Cobalt Flats from Ernie Ball though I would prefer they be heavier gauge.

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Off topic but, you are aware that a .110 set (.055-.075-.090-.110) does exist, right?
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The problem is the top strings are likely to be insanely tight. A "hybrid slinky" set (.45-.065.-085.-105) with the E swapped out for the .110 from the "power slinky" one would do, but it would be expensive since to my knowledge single cobalt flats aren't available.

Doner Designs said:

but to my ears they are not as bright as the others I mentioned.

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don't know, I've used Fender and Chromes a lot over the years, and they both sounded darker and muffled compared to the "always there" metallic vibe of the LaBella.
I've never tried the Cobalt, but I guess that they are a totally different beast, kind of a half-round more than flatwound.

Pier_ said:

don't know, I've used Fender and Chromes a lot over the years, and they both sounded darker and muffled compared to the "always there" metallic vibe of the LaBella.
I've never tried the Cobalt, but I guess that they are a totally different beast, kind of a half-round more than flatwound.

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I have heard others say similar. I guess pickups, amps, cabs and ears come into play as well.

Not sure if the cobalts are half round. They are not marketed that way.

HankHillWaluigi said:

Was thinking about this the other day and talking with a fellow bass player of mine. When I first began playing bass, I was reading up on how to get "that Motown sound" and picked up a set of D'Addario Chromes two months after I started playing - a .50-.105 set (man did my fingers get tough quick). Since then, I've been using flatwounds on the majority of my basses and I've been nothing but satisfied with my tone. The last set of rounds I bought was in August of 2015 and came off as quickly as I put them on. My current choice is GHS Precision Flats .45-.105, but I may bump it up to .55-.105 soon. To me, flats changed my playing style from always trying to get through a mix and show off to sitting nicely in the mix and supporting the group.

Since I've started, nearly every bass player I've come across has never heard of flats (barring old souls and the occasional player like me), but when they try them out, they love them and have me install a set on their bass. Granted, flats aren't for everyone, but my question here is how did the string that was at one time the only option lose popularity and come back in such force? Were flats even available in the 80's/90's? I'm not trying to troll, just genuinely curious about the history.

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I started playing around 1967 and never even heard of round wounds until the early 70's although I guess they were available earlier. I started noticing the sound on records in the early 70's and wanted to get it. I didn't realize it was a string and bought the same kind of bass as I heard on a record with it and of course it came with flatwounds as they almost all did in those days but it thumped like the rest. I finally heard about Rotosounds as those were about the only round wound string in those days and tried them and liked the sound so I stuck with them for years. I gradually started using them again during the early 2000's as I missed the thick bottom from flatwounds. I have them on most of my basses now and rarely bring the ones with round wounds to gigs anymore. I went through a lot of different flats and finally settled on Labella deep Talkin' flats, they sound and feel great and yes they sit right in the mix or actually more like below the mix with the kick so I'm not in competition with the guitar players. I have gotten nothing but compliments since I've been using them from both band members and audience members alike.

HankHillWaluigi said:

To me, flats changed my playing style from always trying to get through a mix and show off to sitting nicely in the mix and supporting

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I see this all the time on TB:
"Why would anyone want flats? They're dead, and stiff, and they sound like garbage! Now help me figure out some upgrades for my bridge, pickups, signal chain and amp - I need to cut better."

Additionally, it's real easy to punch through a mix with flats if your band knows how to EQ themselves. And you can take it up a few notches with some light OD when needed.

klokker said:

I have Sadowsky flats on one of my basses, super strings, but I just can't make them work live, and my bandmates don't like them either in the mix. Could be that there is some mix issue that I'm not aware of, but just can't make them work for what we need in our band. Both our guitar players say, "It's all about the bass", they're always asking for more. So while I prefer to play flats, it's SS in the band.

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Black label or Blue label?