Intonation problem on 760M set?

TheIndieKid · Sep 18, 2019

I've had the LaBella Jameson set fitted to my Supro Huntington III and they're the meatiest strings I've ever heard. The only problem I'm facing is the E string is proving extremely hard to intonate. I've tried to set the witness point (extremely hard to do) and I'm nearly there, but there still isn't a straight line from bridge to nut. I don't know how to achieve this past doing what I'm doing already. The string is sharp at the octave in comparison to the harmonic. Any tips?

I remember seeing that these older, thicker flatwounds have intonation issues. Is this the problem which I'm facing?

HaphAsSard · Sep 20, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
I've tried to set the witness point (extremely hard to do) and I'm nearly there, but there still isn't a straight line from bridge to nut. I don't know how to achieve this past doing what I'm doing already. The string is sharp at the octave in comparison to the harmonic.

Give it a little time. I've no experience with the former Jamersons, but from all accounts they're 1) very stiff, 2) fairly high-tensioned all right but your bass is a short-scale so the E is unlikely to have more actual tension than a roundwound 110 on a 34" scale bass; combine the two aspects -> the E may need some time to...assume the position i.e. flatten the curvature past the bridge saddle. Speaking of which: does the saddle have enough room to be set back for proper intonation? or do the Supro folks not account for stiffer strings be used on the bass?

Completely OT: do you and @Woody1999 know each other? I mean, joined TB within 10 weeks from each other, same age, both Brummies...

' (Then again, over a literal million people live there...)

ixlramp · Sep 20, 2019

A .110 flatwound is very stiff, which therefore requires the saddle to be moved far back to intonate, no surprise some basses run out of saddle travel. Best use a smaller gauge or a more flexible .110.

TheIndieKid · Sep 20, 2019

HaphAsSard said:
Give it a little time. I've no experience with the former Jamersons, but from all accounts they're 1) very stiff, 2) fairly high-tensioned all right but your bass is a short-scale so the E is unlikely to have more actual tension than a roundwound 110 on a 34" scale bass; combine the two aspects -> the E may need some time to...assume the position i.e. flatten the curvature past the bridge saddle. Speaking of which: does the saddle have enough room to be set back for proper intonation? or do the Supro folks not account for stiffer strings be used on the bass?

Completely OT: do you and @Woody1999 know each other? I mean, joined TB within 10 weeks from each other, same age, both Brummies... ' (Then again, over a literal million people live there...)

I hope it's the case of what you said first, and not last. I thought all bridges could intonate strings (as long as they are intended for the that tuning - I can understand why a BEAD set tuned to standard might not intonate). I'll have to give Supro a message regarding their bridge.

And unfortunately, I don't know him :roflmao:

I don't think I've ever seen a bassist on here from the same city as me. Seeing as you said Brummies, I guess you're living in good ol' Blighty as well? :hyper:

TheIndieKid · Sep 20, 2019

ixlramp said:
A .110 flatwound is very stiff, which therefore requires the saddle to be moved far back to intonate, no surprise some basses run out of saddle travel. Best use a smaller gauge or a more flexible .110.

I never even thought this was a thing. Spent £43 on these strings as well. I mean, I have no clue about physics and all, but I would have thought all basses could intonate a heavy string that was within the thickness of most 'standard' heavy gushes. If anyone with a physics background knows why, I would love to hear you nerd out about it.

I thought I was going to get my question unanswered, as it had been about two days since I posted this. You guys have been my saving angels tonight. :hyper:

Hopefully, it's not the case of bridge adjustability. Could a picture of the bridge possibly help prognosis?

HaphAsSard · Sep 20, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
Could a picture of the bridge possibly help prognosis?

I believe so: post away.

TheIndieKid said:
And unfortunately, I don't know him I don't think I've ever seen a bassist on here from the same city as me. Seeing as you said Brummies, I guess you're living in good ol' Blighty as well?

As I told a (former) TBer starting from this post,
The definition of Rock and Roll!
in a past life (earliest Aughts), I spent (the academic part of) my year abroad where Spencer Davis, back when he dated Christine McVie, got his degree in German language and literature (not sure about the graduating part, and not exactly: the Muirhead Tower wasn't around in his time). To paraphrase old Ewan McColl,

I met my love on the Bristol Road (at the bus stop where pupils at King Edward's* took the bus)
dreamed a dream by the old canal (this part left unchanged)
kissed my girl up in Oak Tree Lane (at a semi-detached right in front of the old hospital)
dirty old town, dirty old town...

I lived in Hubert Rd, Bournbrook, by the way.

More weakly connected snippets from that chitchat:
I saw Judas Priest at the Academy. (Tim "Ripper" Owens era).
I am Italian, currently living where I was conceived, born (not - that was in the hospital) and raised.
Part of Humanities was in the tower (foreign languages - the main humanities building is/was? at its foot, at an L to the old library building), but perhaps some other departments as well.
I remember walking in front of the glorious Knife & Fork on the Bristol Road opposite Selly Oak Station and next to Birmingham Battery (and to a not much greasier motorcycle shop) on one side, literally hanging over the canal on the other. I could never convince any of my friends to set foot in there.
View attachment 2817524
The whole area has been razed.
David Hart’s The Titanic Café closes its doors and hits the rocks
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIYVxoh3Xo0

(Across the road, Big John's Fish and Chips is still there. Judging by how often I was in a queue in there, not a really varied diet did I have in those days...)

*as well as those at Jonathan Coe's fictional King William's
^ [EDIT: Wikilink fixed.]

TheIndieKid · Sep 20, 2019

All of these places ring bells. Especially Shelly Oak Station. I'm not from the southern part of the city, but I've been through it and around it. Especially Selly Oak and that general area. Kings Norton and the like. It's a far cry from Italy, I bet. One of my dream destinations to visit one day.

Anyhow, here we are:

HaphAsSard · Sep 20, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
All of these places ring bells. Especially Shelly Oak Station. I'm not from the southern part of the city, but I've been through it and around it. Especially Selly Oak and that general area. Kings Norton and the like. It's a far cry from Italy, I bet. One of my dream destinations to visit one day.

Anyhow, here we are:
View attachment 3544130

The furthest north I went while there was to Sutton Park, for a picnic. Beside that time, I don't think I ever ventured much farther than Moor St Station in my city centre roamings.

Yeah, the saddle looks bottomed out. However, you still can remove the spring to eke out a half cm's worth of intonation.

TheIndieKid · Sep 20, 2019

HaphAsSard said:
The furthest north I went while there was to Sutton Park, for a picnic. Beside that time, I don't think I ever ventured much farther than Moor St Station in my city centre roamings.

Yeah, the saddle looks bottomed out. However, you still can remove the spring to eke out a half cm's worth of intonation.

Now there's haunts I know more. Bet it was a lot different then. Probably more picturesque in some ways too.

Unfortunately, I don't think removing the spring will fix a + 12 cent intonation result. Maybe it's a bad string?

HaphAsSard · Sep 20, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
Unfortunately, I don't think removing the spring will fix a + 12 cent intonation result. Maybe it's a bad string?

Uhhh...I guess you could look for another, single Jamerson E and get a sample of two. In case it proves just as stiff (= in need of a lot of compensation), your options are:
as said, a less stiff string;
having some work done on the bridge saddle (perhaps extend the threading deeper into the right side, cut away the cylindrical part);
repositioning the bridge.

TheIndieKid · Sep 20, 2019

HaphAsSard said:
Uhhh...I guess you could look for another, single Jamerson E and get a sample of two. In case it proves just as stiff (= in need of a lot of compensation), your options are:
as said, a less stiff string;
having some work done on the bridge saddle (perhaps extend the threading deeper into the right side, cut away the cylindrical part);
repositioning the bridge.

Probably a bridge with a lack of adjustability for a thick string. I wish large - scale bass manufacturers would use some of their R&D money in developing bridges for short scale basses and thicker strings. Mind you, I guess that could also be said for strings and how string manufacturers should produce strings with dedicated gauges for short scale instruments (thicker!). But I suppose that would mean revamping a long standing and well - established market and methodology.

HaphAsSard · Sep 20, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
Probably a bridge with a lack of adjustability for a thick string. I wish large - scale bass manufacturers would use some of their R&D money in developing bridges for short scale basses and thicker strings. Mind you, I guess that could also be said for strings and how string manufacturers should produce strings with dedicated gauges for short scale instruments (thicker!). But I suppose that would mean revamping a long standing and well - established market and methodology.

I hear you. The established practice is to never go thicker than standard (long-scale) gauges; in fact, many short-scale players swear by light-gauge strings. I do use light gauges on my shorty, but that's mainly due to the fact it's a repurposed baritone guitar tuned E to E, and until now I've stuck to what fits through its annoying through-body loading, out of laziness = reluctance to modding.
Speaking of which, if you are handy with metalwork or know someone who is, moving the saddle proper (the piece where the string rests) at a spot further back

would be another option (perhaps combined with the other mods to the adjustment screw section). In that case, the string would need to be threaded into a spacer of some king, in order to keep the irregular part of the winding out of the witness point.
...Yeah, moving back the whole bridge looks the less invasive mod after all (it would be invisible in the end).

HaphAsSard · Sep 23, 2019

TheIndieKid said:
HaphAsSard said:

The furthest north I went while there was to Sutton Park, for a picnic. Beside that time, I don't think I ever ventured much farther than Moor St Station in my city centre roamings.

Click to expand...

Now there's haunts I know more. Bet it was a lot different then. Probably more picturesque in some ways too.

(Apologies to everyone else for the extended OT...)
Correction: furthest north (Sutton Park excepted) was Snow Hill Station, not Moor St.; I also remember strolling around St. Philip's Cathedral, and also walking all the way to Swordfish Records, behind Tesco on Corporation Street.
1st of all, glad to find out Swordfish still exists; 2nd...dang! Was the Tesco building even there 20 years ago?!?
Cheesus, I gotta go back, before I forget everything, and before everything changes!

TheIndieKid · Sep 24, 2019

HaphAsSard said:
(Apologies to everyone else for the extended OT...)
Correction: furthest north (Sutton Park excepted) was Snow Hill Station, not Moor St.; I also remember strolling around St. Philip's Cathedral, and also walking all the way to Swordfish Records, behind Tesco on Corporation Street.
1st of all, glad to find out Swordfish still exists; 2nd...dang! Was the Tesco building even there 20 years ago?!?
Cheesus, I gotta go back, before I forget everything, and before everything changes!

I'll message you so that this thread isn't counted as derailed by the moderators.

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