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08 Ampeg gear, USA built or Asian?

I bought the Ampeg book a couple weeks ago and since then, read about the way SLM acquired the Ampeg brand and got it back on track.
An incredible adventure. These guys really loved what they were doing. They gave Ampeg a new life and standard of quality.
Somehow, based on our recent experience, I doubt LOUD will achieve the same. My MIA Ampeg is going nowhere away from me.
Lower European prices have more to do with dollar rate IMHO.
 
BTW, apropos of nothing much......

Both the headman of "Loud China" (Jonathan Chen) and the CEO of Loud (Jamie Engen) have announced their exit in the last week or so.

Could be good for the brands if the new CEO has actual power.

If the beancounters at Sun Capital Partners still have the real power, probably nothing much will change.
 
It seems that the only company who knew how to make money with Ampeg was SLM. Even Everett Hull had his struggles with it. There were times he'd even borrow money from Jess Oliver to buy parts. And Ampeg was always backordered in the 60's. Unimusic brought in some amazing designs, but the guys who ran it weren't so good with business, and then Magnavox sort of shunted it to the background. And MTI couldn't design anything worth a crap because the owner wasn't an amp designer. But SLM seemed to know what they were doing. LOUD doesn't seem to have a clue, although if the rumored B-15N reissue actually takes place this time, they could go a long way into regaining some respect if it's done right. Which I have my doubts about.
 
Glad to have grabbed up several peices of SLM stuff in the last couple of years. BA112, V4BH, and SVT 6Pro to name my favorites. And it's not just Ampeg, the whole trend is bringing me down.


++1. Yep, the apparent clueless bean-counter types don't get it. In order to keep/create demand in the domestic market/musical instrument biz is to offer choice. Fender was smart, they offer all different price points and quality levels. I still say Ampeg should offer MIA price points for the high-end stuff. :scowl: That way, the beancounters can make their margins with the overseas stuff/sell in quantity.

If Fender sold the farm they'd be SOL in a heartbeat.

Jimbob
 
BTW, rumor has it the 8PRO will be out again in October......... We'll see on that too.

Loud has a differnt mindset......they don't think in terms of products for users..... they think of "brands" with marketing punch. As if amps were beer.

My story has always been (and I hardly ever get believed by managers) that

1) musicians are conservative when it comes to amps etc.

2) Musicians are a bit like mechanics..... the tools have to be good. AFTER the tool is good, THEN maybe the polish makes a difference.

3) The quality and performance guarantee the brand, the brand DOES NOT guarantee the quality and performance......

Getting that kicked into the mind of a marketer, especially if the marketer is not a musician, (and I don't mean just a bad musician, like me, I mean NOT a musician) is darn near impossible.

Somewhere in the "puzzle palace" out to Woodinville someone may have a clue. But so far, as nearly as I can see, out there you can have either power or a clue, pick one.

With a new CEO, maybe something will happen. Dunno.
 
In all honesty, what I envision happening is that, at some point, Ampeg will go under - lay dormant for a number of years, and then return.........

Not at all unlike a California company called "Acoustic"......

Supposedly their new 360 is close to hitting the market, so we'll see....until then, I have my Ampeg products (SVT4Pro and SVT6X10HLF).

I will keep them forever, but will not purchase anything new from them. If musicians can only voice their opinions through sales, then let it be so....
 
There is great article in this months edition of Automotive Design and Production, entitled "China: A Field Guide."

Some highlights of the problems faced by the Automotive OEM's, which are noted for over-controlling their suppliers and sub-suppliers (which, unfortunately, is not the case with electronics OEM's):

-Availability of raw materials and standardized manufacturing techniques are major problems. In fact, the article calls this the "source of the black eye."

-IP protection. The Chinese government estimates counterfeit products make up between 15% and 20% of all products manufactured in the country. (I've heard that in the electronics sector, those numbers are closer to 70% to 80%. The last band I played in actually had an entire pa system made up of counterfeits.)

My understanding is that these problems are even worse in Vietnam.

From my point of view, production of anything in China or Vietnam is a no-win for the consumer until the OEM's can show they are, at a minimum, using ISO9000 certified suppliers throughout their entire supply chain. I sincerly doubt that a company like Loud has the financial muscle, or even the desire to make that happen.

Ljazz
 
I don't see anything in this thread at the moment that's deliberately inflammatory, but one or two posts are getting close to topics that often result in arguments, so I just thought it might be time for a reminder about TB's policy for avoiding those sort of flare-ups:

Paul said:
While threads on the topic of outsourcing production overseas are allowed, these threads must stay on the topic of the quality and attributes of the amp itself. Any introduction of politics and race are not allowed in this forum. Voicing dissatisfaction about the quality of a product, no problem. Discussing prices, profits, etc. no problem. Introducing general political / personal remarks on outsourcing, race/ethnic content, or other remarks that serve to derail these threads from discussion on the product itself, is forbidden.

For several months, we have tried to keep civil discussion threads open regarding recent choices industry players have made to move their production overseas. However, without exception, every one of these threads has resulted in a flame war, and closed down. Maintaining civil discussion on a faceless, impersonal message board is always difficult. Maintaining civil political debate (or religious discusion), is nearly impossible. That's why both topics are banned from all general public TalkBass forums (and have been for many years).

I've had requests to ban overseas production threads from Amps all together, as a result of the inevitable political flame fests that have resulted. However, the vast majority of TalkBass members contribute to these threads in a constructive manner, regardless of which side of the debate they're on. We don't want to let the behavior of a few ruin the discussion for everyone, so we will be enforcing this rule very strictly from here on out.

Therefore, any member who takes it upon him/herself to introduce political material, racist remarks, or other generic comments on the effects of outsourcing in this world today, into any Amps thread, or show disrespect towards another member, or otherwise contribute in the derailment of these threads, will be offered a heavy penalty, and may be asked to leave these forums.
 
BTW, rumor has it the 8PRO will be out again in October......... We'll see on that too.

Loud has a differnt mindset......they don't think in terms of products for users..... they think of "brands" with marketing punch. As if amps were beer.

My story has always been (and I hardly ever get believed by managers) that

1) musicians are conservative when it comes to amps etc.

2) Musicians are a bit like mechanics..... the tools have to be good. AFTER the tool is good, THEN maybe the polish makes a difference.

3) The quality and performance guarantee the brand, the brand DOES NOT guarantee the quality and performance......

Getting that kicked into the mind of a marketer, especially if the marketer is not a musician, (and I don't mean just a bad musician, like me, I mean NOT a musician) is darn near impossible.

Somewhere in the "puzzle palace" out to Woodinville someone may have a clue. But so far, as nearly as I can see, out there you can have either power or a clue, pick one.

With a new CEO, maybe something will happen. Dunno.

I suspect that Loud is more interested in selling toys to hobbyists than in selling tools to working professionals.
 
I suspect that Loud is more interested in selling toys to hobbyists than in selling tools to working professionals.

This seems to be the case. Look at all the BA115 threads on a weekly basis. The younger kids want an Ampeg amp, because the big ones are so famous and have been forever. So, they buy the entry level stuff in large numbers. I'm not saying they're crap amps, but you could do alot better with another brand for similar money.
 

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