$100 bass vs $10,000 bass

[GreyBeard]

From this thread I'm getting the message that entry level basses are a lot higher quality than they use to be. In fact, these entry level basses are as good as if not better than some CBS Fenders I've played. Is there a price point where the quality no longer becomes acceptable?

 

[Zonked]

But, that has pretty much always been the case. A solid P is generally not too pricey, and the skills and knowledge of the player are the vastly most important factor. Two totally separate issues. Nothing at all wrong with great instruments, irrespective of cost either way. We should not be dissing either end of the spectrum. Yes, it is absolutely a great time to be a bass player at all levels and budgets.

I have to disagree with you that " that has pretty much always been the case" that you could get a professional, quality instrument in the past for very reasonable money. That "Is" the "new" in this case.

I don't have a problem if people want to spend loads of money on a "fine" instrument if they wish, but they don't NEED to is all I am saying. People will pay big money for what they "want" and that's ok too.

 

[Zonked]

From this thread I'm getting the message that entry level basses are a lot higher quality than they use to be. In fact, these entry level basses are as good as if not better than some CBS Fenders I've played. Is there a price point where the quality no longer becomes acceptable?

sure, at a price point where a professional can't do his job as a bass player.

 

[JimmyM]

While a Precision wasn't too pricey, I paid $400 for my 76 new in 76. That translates to the buying power of $1740 today. Definitely not cheap.

 

[nostatic]

From this thread I'm getting the message that entry level basses are a lot higher quality than they use to be. In fact, these entry level basses are as good as if not better than some CBS Fenders I've played. Is there a price point where the quality no longer becomes acceptable?

You can easily gig a $300 bass. And even down to $100 if you get a good one. Globalization and automation has pushed the quality of entry-level instruments to an all-time high. I remember a time where a $50 guitar bought at a garage sale or pawn shop (some Japanese cheap abomination) was damn near unplayable. That was back in the 60's/70's. If you account for inflation that equivalent amount of money would buy a very playable and decent sounding instrument.

The law of diminishing returns is always in play. Is a $5K bass 10x better than a $500 bass? Maybe, maybe not. Price is an absolute, value is up to the individual. Some find incredible value in an expensive bass - be it because of the playability, sound, attention to detail, ornamental features, developing a relationship with a builder, etc. Those can be intangible benefits that will have different value for each person.

What is "acceptable" usually hinges on the income and values of the player. And those are neither positive or negative, they just are. Everybody gets to decide what is acceptable, affordable, and of high value.

 

[Zonked]

Really? I'm pretty sure that if I waltzed up to your average bass rig, plugged in a Fodera with the Pope preamp, and then plugged in a $100 P bass clone, I could tell the tonal difference, even allowing for volume differences. YMMV

That's what the highly skilled world class violin soloists couldn't do in the blind test posted earlier.

 

[bucephylus]

I guess I'll just remain in obstinate disagreement. I bought my first real bass, a used Fender P in 1971 for $175. It was a solid, excellent instrument. In 2000, Fender made a quantum improvement in the QC in the Mexico plant and started producing extremely affordable instruments that were great players. I bought a 2000 MIM fretless Jazz Bass for $200 new out the door, and gigged that bass for many years quite happily. I still own the neck. Affordable decent basses have been around for a while, if you know where to look.

I have a parts Jazz Bass with an MIM used 60's neck on a Warmoth body with a Sadowsky onboard pre, and Seymour Duncan SJB2 pickups; which isn't worth a whole lot, but is accessible to an average income and more than adequate for a skilled player. I also just took delivery of an NYC Sadowsky that I tailored to my preferences and have enjoyed on two gigs so far. The Sadowsky is certainly the nicer bass to play by a long shot; and zero to do with appearance or status or some other unimportant factor. I'm pretty sure no one in the audience can tell the difference. But, I can.

If it makes you cats feel good to slag instruments which have had more time and effort put into the construction, be my guest. I happen to think that if you have the means and know what to look for, a nice instrument can be pretty special. Nothing wrong with that. At the same time, you can certainly get it on with more working class instruments. Our craft is a blue collar endeavor. It is open to all walks of life. The main thing either way is: "can you hang?"

 

[bucephylus]

That's what the highly skilled world class violin soloists couldn't do in the blind test posted earlier.

Ummm, no. Go back and look at how that test was conducted. Those weren't plywood student instruments that they put up against the Strad. Those were modern master grade instruments. The question wasn't whether a plywood POS was tonally equal to a Stradivarius. Thanks a ridiculous question. It was whether modern master grade instruments were in the same class. Clearly, they are. Let's please be reasonable.

 

[Zonked]

I guess I'll just remain in obstinate disagreement. I bought my first real bass, a used Fender P in 1971 for $175. It was a solid, excellent instrument. In 2000, Fender made a quantum improvement in the QC in the Mexico plant and started producing extremely affordable instruments that were great players. I bought a 2000 MIM fretless Jazz Bass for $200 new out the door, and gigged that bass for many years quite happily. I still own the neck. Affordable decent basses have been around for a while, if you know where to look.

I have a parts Jazz Bass with an MIM used 60's neck on a Warmoth body with a Sadowsky onboard pre, and Seymour Duncan SJB2 pickups; which isn't worth a whole lot, but is accessible to an average income and more than adequate for a skilled player. I also just took delivery of an NYC Sadowsky that I tailored to my preferences and have enjoyed on two gigs so far. The Sadowsky is certainly the nicer bass to play by a long shot; and zero to do with appearance or status or some other unimportant factor. I'm pretty sure no one in the audience can tell the difference. But, I can.

If it makes you cats feel good to slag instruments which have had more time and effort put into the construction, be my guest. I happen to think that if you have the means and know what to look for, a nice instrument can be pretty special. Nothing wrong with that. At the same time, you can certainly get it on with more working class instruments. Our craft is a blue collar endeavor. It is open to all walks of life. The main thing either way is: "can you hang?"

You speak of basses as a social class. "nice instrument", "special". And on the other end you have "working class instruments"

Interesting descriptions.

Fine, we should all buy the bass that allows us to do our job as bass players and ALSO makes us happy!!

Rock on!!

 

[nostatic]

I'm pretty sure no one in the audience can tell the difference. But, I can.

This is the key part that is lost by the "blind test" approach. I don't play with a blindfold, I know what is in my hands. That may bias my perception of the instrument. Either way, my perceptions about the instrument will affect what/how I play. So whether it is a "real" difference or my perception or internal bias, in the end it doesn't matter. What does matter is my relationship with the instrument and my ability to make music with it.

My Fodera Yin Yang Deluxe remains the best bass I've ever owned/played/gigged. Is it perfect? No, nothing is. But I love the tone, it never gets in my way, and rather inspires me to reach beyond my grasp. So the insane (according to some) price was completely worth the price of admission. I can tell the difference every time I pick it up. Doesn't matter what the audience thinks about my bass or if they can hear the difference. Odds are they can feel the difference when I'm on and the band is cooking. And that is always the goal.

 

[Zonked]

Ummm, no. Go back and look at how that test was conducted. Those weren't plywood student instruments that they put up against the Strad. Those were modern master grade instruments. The question wasn't whether a plywood POS was tonally equal to a Stradivarius. Thanks a ridiculous question. It was whether modern master grade instruments were in the same class. Clearly, they are. Let's please be reasonable.

Fair point, but the results of the study debunked the "myth" "the majic" " the sound" that had been been attributed to the Strad even by highly skilled world class players. That was the real point.

Rock what you got no matter what price point. The cream always rises to the top no matter how much players pay for their basses or not.

Peace!

 

[JimmyM]

Fair point, but the results of the study debunked the "myth" "the majic" " the sound" that had been been attributed to the Strad even by highly skilled world class players. That was the real point.

Rock what you got no matter what price point. The cream always rises to the top no matter how much players pay for their basses or not.

Peace!

This is true. And I totally get the arguments presented by both extremes of this conversation, and I especially get those who float between extremes since I'm one of them. But at the end of the day, how you play is always the most important thing and it always will be. So these weekly $100 vs $10,000 threads are a waste of time. So everyone grow up, keep your eyes on your own paper, and get off my lawn!

 

[Korladis]

Spent too much time here already

On that we can agree.

I'd pay good money to NOT have that tone.

It's horrendous IMO. Just awful sounding.

I wouldn't go that far, but I don't find it, or the tones of the video in the OP, to be very interesting or impressive.

 

[Wiremessiah]

Is there a price point where the quality no longer becomes acceptable?

Not really. It's not about price so much as evaluating each individual piece. But like i have been saying, you still want to get a bass that you like and looks and feels good and lasts, which will probably cost more than entry level. I like vintage stuff because it retains and increases value, and has history and is inspiring. I could get the same sound from a cheap chinese hofner as my '67, but I will never have the same emotional attachment to it, which is important with an instrument IMO.

 

[B-line]

When I first began getting paying work as a Bassist, I had a $300 Ibanez, that was my budget at the time...Ahh, the good old, bad old days, Top Ramen & all.

As my workload and payouts increased, so did the quality of instruments I played, beginning with great stock builds like G&L and EBMM's- I paid about a grand for those at the time, now they're all the way up to $1500 or so, and I'll tell you- Those are great builds that can take anything thrown at them. To me $1500 or so is not a lot of money for an instrument, even if you're a 15 year old beginner- Go ask Dad, or get a P/T job at the Mall! It won't take that long to save up!

If you're a working adult, unless you have 6 kids, you can budget it in I'm sure, or use your VISA!
So then:
Any player today can afford a professional, capable axe. If you only want to pay $300, as has been stated MANY times, they are def out there and they will work in the garage or on-stage at a big venue.

Of course a $10K Ritter or $20K Alembic (I'm gonna leave poor Vinnie & Co. outta this rant!) is not accessible to many, if not most players.

So what? If you can do it, do it! There's obviously the demand, just check out the wait times for those gems.
My highest $$ bass is around 4.5K, it's a KILLER (literally, that's the brand) & I have a few others in the $2.5-3.5 range, and let me tell you-They are amazing instruments that give me a stuff-eatin' grin when I work with them and recall those days of my $300 Ibby (which served me very well) and Main-Course Top Ramen and/or Grilled Cheese meals.

Today, I both eat better & play better basses.
I work hard; I've earned it.

 

[bucephylus]

You speak of basses as a social class. "nice instrument", "special". And on the other end you have "working class instruments"

Interesting descriptions.

Fine, we should all buy the bass that allows us to do our job as bass players and ALSO makes us happy!!

Rock on!!

Exactly. And where things get really interesting is that some of those "working class" instruments, which merely means that folks with other priorities can afford them, can also be "special."

Where the rub comes for me is when you get a more costly instrument that isn't special. The makers try to avoid that, but it happens. Pedigree by itself means zero. The instrument still has to deliver.

 

[GreyBeard]

I guess I'll just remain in obstinate disagreement. I bought my first real bass, a used Fender P in 1971 for $175. It was a solid, excellent instrument. In 2000, Fender made a quantum improvement in the QC in the Mexico plant and started producing extremely affordable instruments that were great players. I bought a 2000 MIM fretless Jazz Bass for $200 new out the door, and gigged that bass for many years quite happily. I still own the neck. Affordable decent basses have been around for a while, if you know where to look.

I have a parts Jazz Bass with an MIM used 60's neck on a Warmoth body with a Sadowsky onboard pre, and Seymour Duncan SJB2 pickups; which isn't worth a whole lot, but is accessible to an average income and more than adequate for a skilled player. I also just took delivery of an NYC Sadowsky that I tailored to my preferences and have enjoyed on two gigs so far. The Sadowsky is certainly the nicer bass to play by a long shot; and zero to do with appearance or status or some other unimportant factor. I'm pretty sure no one in the audience can tell the difference. But, I can.

If it makes you cats feel good to slag instruments which have had more time and effort put into the construction, be my guest. I happen to think that if you have the means and know what to look for, a nice instrument can be pretty special. Nothing wrong with that. At the same time, you can certainly get it on with more working class instruments. Our craft is a blue collar endeavor. It is open to all walks of life. The main thing either way is: "can you hang?"

I don't think anyone can or will disagree with you. If you can afford it and it is what you want, of course it is cool.

 

[B-line]

Working "pro's", whether World-Class Vic Wootens or AJ's, or Session Aces, or your meat-and potatos gigging bar-room bassists have different strokes.

AJ is meticulous in his selection of gear, both instrument & amplification.
Needless to say, other top-dogs are offered by the builders the finest high-dollar gear- because they're high-profile top-dawgs!

OTOH- other world-class players: I performed at a Festival a few years back, and got to hang with the Meters and speak w George Porter JR, a very cool man. He was using an older, beat-up P-Bass, told me "Hey Man, that's one of MY FUNK MACHINES!" btw- George can & does lay down the FUNK.

I worked with a highly-regarded & skilled guitarist, quite well-known & busy at the time, who LOVED finding the crappiest beat up cheapo guitars he could find, making them playable, and tearing it up with them.
He'd been offered endorsements and instruments by some highly regarded companies & wasn't interested.
I remember him coming over before a gig once, and saying: "Look what I just got!- I paid $150 at a Pawn Shop!"
It was some (IMO) horrendous Dean import, but I tell you- He KILLED it with that thing.