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I didn't read all the pages of posts... but...
What is the routine of each lesson? Is there a curriculum guiding your lessons? Or are you just 'learning tunes' and doing what you want at each lesson?
I've been teaching public school orchestra for almost 20 years and teach private double bass & bass guitar lessons. I've seen many guitar and bass guitar teachers that play great but don't have a plan for their teaching. This can work for some people but can quickly lead to ruts.
100 hours isn't really that much. Classical players often crank through that in a month or so.
In my private lessons I try to provide a 'balanced diet' of skill acquisition.
For bass guitar that often looks like this:
1. Fundamental technique - right & left hand exercises to create efficiency in the left hand and an even & solid tone in the right hand. Always making sure proper body mechanics and ergonomics are used while staying relaxed. Check out the book Bass Hanon.
Some players want to pluck with 2 fingers, some with 3, some want to use a pick. No problem! They're all useful and can be incorporated. I recommend starting with 2 finger plucking. But starting with a pick or learning picking simultaneously is great too.
You can never go wrong with fundamentals and solid technique.
2. Scales, arpeggios, theory. These are your basic musical building blocks and will only make you bettter!
Check out books by Ed Friedland & Chuck Rainey.
3. Idiomatic bass lines, playing, & grooves. Books like Bass Aerobics and Bass Grooves are excellent.
4. Improv, ear training, transcription... which coincides with 5:
5. Learn and jam on tunes you want to learn! Which will all come easier with 1 - 4.
In my lessons I always start with about 5 minutes of #1... More time on 2 & 3 but always leave time for 4 & 5 - we are musicians after all and need to make music!
The most important parts of your progress is persistence & grit mixed with some smiles and fun. Don't give up and you'll get there.
What is the routine of each lesson? Is there a curriculum guiding your lessons? Or are you just 'learning tunes' and doing what you want at each lesson?
I've been teaching public school orchestra for almost 20 years and teach private double bass & bass guitar lessons. I've seen many guitar and bass guitar teachers that play great but don't have a plan for their teaching. This can work for some people but can quickly lead to ruts.
100 hours isn't really that much. Classical players often crank through that in a month or so.
In my private lessons I try to provide a 'balanced diet' of skill acquisition.
For bass guitar that often looks like this:
1. Fundamental technique - right & left hand exercises to create efficiency in the left hand and an even & solid tone in the right hand. Always making sure proper body mechanics and ergonomics are used while staying relaxed. Check out the book Bass Hanon.
Some players want to pluck with 2 fingers, some with 3, some want to use a pick. No problem! They're all useful and can be incorporated. I recommend starting with 2 finger plucking. But starting with a pick or learning picking simultaneously is great too.
You can never go wrong with fundamentals and solid technique.
2. Scales, arpeggios, theory. These are your basic musical building blocks and will only make you bettter!
Check out books by Ed Friedland & Chuck Rainey.
3. Idiomatic bass lines, playing, & grooves. Books like Bass Aerobics and Bass Grooves are excellent.
4. Improv, ear training, transcription... which coincides with 5:
5. Learn and jam on tunes you want to learn! Which will all come easier with 1 - 4.
In my lessons I always start with about 5 minutes of #1... More time on 2 & 3 but always leave time for 4 & 5 - we are musicians after all and need to make music!
The most important parts of your progress is persistence & grit mixed with some smiles and fun. Don't give up and you'll get there.
A teacher is in many ways only as good as the student. The stereotypical half hour lesson at the music store teacher can't afford to blow off poor students and sometimes caters to their whims to pay the rent. I suppose it's understandable but this kind of situation is best avoided.
Too many people have the idea that the student/teacher relationship is a customer/service provider one. It is not. It's a master/disciple relationship you commit to and once committed do as the master instructs. The three best teachers I've had all more or less auditioned me. When you start to worry about wasting the teacher's time not the other way around you have your head in the right place. If everything a teacher asked you to do made sense before you actually did it you wouldn't need a teacher.
I'd like to add that I've been playing for just under 30 years, have practiced an average of an hour a day for that time (sometimes much more, sometimes less), and I am somewhere between upper-adequate and elite-mediocre. Just keepin' it real, not everyone gets to be a virtuoso just because you put in lots of time with "perfect practice", it's all about striving to be the best you you can be and enjoying the ride.
The point you bring up with your question is also certainly valid, IMO, and I understand why some would be automatically inclined to think what they did of the OPs post.
The OP also said he spends about half his time playing along to Pandora, and mentioned being able to play a few songs, in which case the term 'mostly' gets a little (read: very) vague, doesn't it?
Nothing wrong with learning some scale patterns on the instrument, though there should definitely be a primary focus on songs and rep. I stand by that opinion.
To clarify, I did not intend to make an assumption about the quality of the OP's teacher or lessons, as others clearly did. How could I know given the amount of information provided? I am just trying to provide a contrary viewpoint, and what relevant information I am capable of providing in this instance, in the hopes that the OP may make more informed choices.
Let's say a normal work week is 40 hours. After less than 3 weeks on the job nobody is going to be more than just a beginner.
All the advise is much appreciated. My first order of business is playing with others (not well, but playing none the less). I know it's been buried after 180 posts but I do practice as much as my day and my wrist will allow. Although I can probably put in more time on the weekends.
LOL, at the teacher needing my income. He took me on as a favor. He's a very busy guy.
Again, I have no designs on becoming a paid musician. I want to enjoy myself and not embarrass anyone in the process.
Cheers and Happy Holiday weekend!!!
In post #19 you say....."my instructor has a lesson plan..." As I see it, if this was the case, you would not be spending the bulk of your time (as you state in your first post) practicing chromatic and pentatonic scales. I assume you are now going to amend this statement too ?
BTW, I never mentioned anything about the teacher needing your income.
I have no wish to labour the point any further. I have given my 2c worth. I wish you all the best with your learning journey.
A Happy Holiday weekend to you also.
Too much emphasis on the amount of practice time, and not enough on the quality of how that time is spent.
"What to practice" is not the same for every player. I believe the most important thing is to network and understand what skills are most in demand in your geographic area among your circle of like-minded musicians. For example, where I live and the types of bands I play with, the two most important skills are 1) having a good ear; and 2) being able to "fake" an unfamiliar song using chord symbols or roman numerals. Where you live, and the type of musicians you play with, it might be a different skill set. But you will never find out sitting home alone in your room, you need to get out there, throw yourself into the deep end, and then be honest with yourself what are your musical weaknesses that are holding you back. These are the areas where, with the right instruction and practice, you can show the greatest return on your investment of practice time.
So, if I only had 30 minutes to practice, and I know I need to work on my two critical skills of ear training and harmonic progressions, I would spend 15 minutes learning songs by ear (not obsessing over every detail, but rather challenging myself to get the general outline in one listen, three songs in 15 minutes, boom boom boom), and 15 minutes running through popular/common chord progressions. For example, today I might play I-IV-V in all 12 keys, tomorrow I play 12 bar blues in all 12 keys, Sunday I work on I-vi-IV-V, Monday I practice I-V-vi-IV, etc.
That is a path that has worked well for me. I have to confess that I rarely sit down and practice just me and my bass these days. My approach rather is to play with others as often as possible, and to be super focused, present, and aware when I do. Because I can hear the progression and know the notes of the chords, I can have a fun time with others (my only musical goal at this stage in my life) without spending hours a week in the practice room. If I do feel my skills are getting rusty and I need "practice" what I usually do, instead of picking up the bass, is to go for a drive in the car, turn on the radio, and practice ear training and harmony by singing along with the notes of the progression, at first the root notes and then the arpeggios. Mentally I am trying to analyze the song in terms of Roman numerals and musical similarities ("Oh yes, I recognize that sound, that's bVII-IV-I, the Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers both used that progression a lot.")
"What to practice" is not the same for every player. I believe the most important thing is to network and understand what skills are most in demand in your geographic area among your circle of like-minded musicians. For example, where I live and the types of bands I play with, the two most important skills are 1) having a good ear; and 2) being able to "fake" an unfamiliar song using chord symbols or roman numerals. Where you live, and the type of musicians you play with, it might be a different skill set. But you will never find out sitting home alone in your room, you need to get out there, throw yourself into the deep end, and then be honest with yourself what are your musical weaknesses that are holding you back. These are the areas where, with the right instruction and practice, you can show the greatest return on your investment of practice time.
So, if I only had 30 minutes to practice, and I know I need to work on my two critical skills of ear training and harmonic progressions, I would spend 15 minutes learning songs by ear (not obsessing over every detail, but rather challenging myself to get the general outline in one listen, three songs in 15 minutes, boom boom boom), and 15 minutes running through popular/common chord progressions. For example, today I might play I-IV-V in all 12 keys, tomorrow I play 12 bar blues in all 12 keys, Sunday I work on I-vi-IV-V, Monday I practice I-V-vi-IV, etc.
That is a path that has worked well for me. I have to confess that I rarely sit down and practice just me and my bass these days. My approach rather is to play with others as often as possible, and to be super focused, present, and aware when I do. Because I can hear the progression and know the notes of the chords, I can have a fun time with others (my only musical goal at this stage in my life) without spending hours a week in the practice room. If I do feel my skills are getting rusty and I need "practice" what I usually do, instead of picking up the bass, is to go for a drive in the car, turn on the radio, and practice ear training and harmony by singing along with the notes of the progression, at first the root notes and then the arpeggios. Mentally I am trying to analyze the song in terms of Roman numerals and musical similarities ("Oh yes, I recognize that sound, that's bVII-IV-I, the Grateful Dead and Allman Brothers both used that progression a lot.")
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I said more or less the same thing myself earlier. My point was that it should be part of a more varied practice plan. Playing along to songs can be done alone.
Ummm... yeah, no.
I'm exactly that decent hobby player. Been playing bar gigs since I was in my teens (I'm 42 now).
I've never, in my life, come close to averaging 2 hours/day of practicing.
I currently average 2-3 hours per WEEK of practicing.
@fearceol, Agreed on your first point. Again to provide another viewpoint... Yes, playing songs is something that can be done alone - it is also a great way to learn and ingrain poor technical habits if you don't know what you're doing. A good teacher can teach good technique through the performance of these songs to a beginner, especially if the songs are well chosen and planned out in a logical sequence for developing technique.
There are many different ways to learn, of course. Some of the other ways suggested by others may be a better path for the OP. My personal stance, or my first go to, rather, is for a student to build a vocabulary of songs and essential terminology like note names, etc. before diving into the theory. Not saying it's a hard and fast rule! Just my own personal plan A.
There are many different ways to learn, of course. Some of the other ways suggested by others may be a better path for the OP. My personal stance, or my first go to, rather, is for a student to build a vocabulary of songs and essential terminology like note names, etc. before diving into the theory. Not saying it's a hard and fast rule! Just my own personal plan A.
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Learn side 2 of Abbey Road by ear. I did that around a year after I started playing and helped me out in big ways.
As a hobbyist in your 40s that doesnt sound unusual, for clarity, what I meant is as a starting player even hobbyists tend to practice many hours a week to develop their skillset to a gig ready level. As a complete beginner it will literally take years to be able to play half decent (gig ready) if ur only playing 2 hours a week, even with a lot of talent. Anyone thats ready to make a little sacrifice should be able to play a gig with basic rock tunes in a couple months.
Even when I was a beginner (I started at 10 years old on the upright, didn't play electric until 12) - I never came close to 2 hours per day of practicing.
I'm just happy that I play everyday. I've been on two vacations and still managed to bring a bass along and practice. 
I agree, and this was what I meant about having varied lessons. IMO the very first thing a complete beginner should be taught is how to hold the bass, and how to pluck and fret in a way that is both safe and works for the pupil. This would take up the say...two or three lessons. Then the pupil is good for playing along to songs on his/her own, thus freeing up the following lessons for other fundamental material. My interpretation of the OP's lessons is that playing along to songs (excellent exercise as it is...) is the lesson..along with playing scales.
I got the joke...
That's not boring. Thanks
Um yeah. No, that's not my goal. Maybe you have 2 free hours a night to practice. I don't. I also have other hobbies and interests.
I do enjoy practicing though.
I apologize for saying what you "need" to do, What I'm trying to say is maybe on a rainy Sunday, a three hour practice that makes you're fingers burn from stamina, is what can help crush a plateau.
If you want to get the payoff, you might want to start "finding the time"
I certainly agree that varied lessons are important! I think that having a logical sequence to introduce and reinforce a variety of material, however, is also important.
Tunes and scales? Low level stuff. Perfect for a beginner. Trying to create your own stuff based on learned theoretical principles of harmony - that is higher order thinking! That, to me, is the next step after one has learned some songs in that style and the necessary vocabulary to describe the process. Want to make your own blues progression? Learn three or four or ten blues tunes, then learn some vocabulary by discussing what makes them similar and what makes them different. That's where the rules are hiding. Then apply the rules , ex. make a walking blues bass line using scale steps 1-3-5, or another one using scalar motion, or something like that.
I would be wary to assume that just because a beginner knows how to hold an instrument and make a sound, it is then the best (or at least a good) idea to simply start learning tunes on one's own without anyone to provide some constructive critique. What about learning to interpret tab, or even make sure you are using quality tablature? What about having someone to correct mistakes you can't hear yet? What about the bad habits that tend to creep into a beginner's playing, as they are trying to learn and synthesize so many skills?
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This is a fascinating discussion. I'm enjoying the perspectives of people with various levels of experience. You have received a ton of good advice. There is nothing I can add except the following encouragement. I'm 57 and have been taking lessons for about 2 1/2 years. I can relate to your polite refusal to play in front of people.
I was fortunate enough that my teacher, when I began with him, hosted a monthly open mic. After about 6 months he told me I was ready for open mic night. I didn't believe him. I went to the next few open mics to see what it was all about but left my bass at home. I finally worked up the guts to bring it along and played, I think, four songs that night. I was more nervous than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs but something unexpected happened.
Once I got up behind the lights I felt like I was in a protected environment. Maybe it was my inability to see the crowd very well or maybe it was my budding little ego. Probably it was the company of musicians I knew, liked and respected. I don't know. But it was fun. And addictive. I couldn't wait for subsequent open mics even though I was still a little nervous, but less so, before each event. I'm naturally introverted and have to overcome that to a degree but have found that almost universally, people who play at open mics are incredibly encouraging and generous.
There was only one exception to that but I might have misread the guy. A fairly well known local musician was playing one night and at that point I was the bassist for the house band even though I was a raw noob. He wanted to play Moondance and I told him I never played it. He sort of gruffly told me it was A to B and added: "you're a bass player and you don't know Moondance?". I fumbled my way through it but in my practice time I grabbed a tab and now can get through it credibly. He challenged me and made me better. I've played with him a time or two after that and we've had a great time. Although, come to think of it, we haven't played Moondance a second time...
To put a bow on this, I've begun subbing on bass in my teacher's band and after August when the main bass player has to go back to Europe, I will be the main bass player. I enjoy learning theory and understand it's importance but for me, right now, I'm concentrating on learning songs. I probably know 120-130 reasonably well. That approach has worked for me and is helping me fulfill my goal to play in a band. If that's not your goal, fine. It's your life and everyone is different. But if you want to feel comfortable saying "yes" when asked to play with others, I suggest you take a few songs to an open mic and throw your ass into the wind. You might be surprised how well you do and how soon you will want to return to the stage. If you don't like it, what have you lost?
I was fortunate enough that my teacher, when I began with him, hosted a monthly open mic. After about 6 months he told me I was ready for open mic night. I didn't believe him. I went to the next few open mics to see what it was all about but left my bass at home. I finally worked up the guts to bring it along and played, I think, four songs that night. I was more nervous than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs but something unexpected happened.
Once I got up behind the lights I felt like I was in a protected environment. Maybe it was my inability to see the crowd very well or maybe it was my budding little ego. Probably it was the company of musicians I knew, liked and respected. I don't know. But it was fun. And addictive. I couldn't wait for subsequent open mics even though I was still a little nervous, but less so, before each event. I'm naturally introverted and have to overcome that to a degree but have found that almost universally, people who play at open mics are incredibly encouraging and generous.
There was only one exception to that but I might have misread the guy. A fairly well known local musician was playing one night and at that point I was the bassist for the house band even though I was a raw noob. He wanted to play Moondance and I told him I never played it. He sort of gruffly told me it was A to B and added: "you're a bass player and you don't know Moondance?". I fumbled my way through it but in my practice time I grabbed a tab and now can get through it credibly. He challenged me and made me better. I've played with him a time or two after that and we've had a great time. Although, come to think of it, we haven't played Moondance a second time...
To put a bow on this, I've begun subbing on bass in my teacher's band and after August when the main bass player has to go back to Europe, I will be the main bass player. I enjoy learning theory and understand it's importance but for me, right now, I'm concentrating on learning songs. I probably know 120-130 reasonably well. That approach has worked for me and is helping me fulfill my goal to play in a band. If that's not your goal, fine. It's your life and everyone is different. But if you want to feel comfortable saying "yes" when asked to play with others, I suggest you take a few songs to an open mic and throw your ass into the wind. You might be surprised how well you do and how soon you will want to return to the stage. If you don't like it, what have you lost?
