$1000+ for Indonesian basses?

[Bass Viking]

Again, cheap turner or parts in general are a corporate decision not made on the factory floor. If you get a bass with a cheap or bad turner, that decision was made ‘upstairs’ not by the gal or guy putting them on

The folk on the floor will put on anything the corporation will supply to them.

As an example, I worked in a manufacturing situation. The headquarters wanted us to use inferrer printing stock because it was cheap. The folks on the floor complained that it was hard to work with and gave poor results in the finished product. The Heads insisted we keep using it, until the customers began complaining.

Of course, their method of dealing with it was to blame the workers first. When that didn't work as we had documented the trouble with the stock being used and letting them understand that their insistence on using the cheap stock was not going to improve it.

Guess what? Thinking being cheap would save them money, instead it cost them more money. The price of the cheap stuff then the replacement price of what they should have used in the first place. Then the spoiled work that needed to be replaced and the damage to their reputation.

Cheap is not always cheap or affordable

You gotta love when the higher ups value their employees and go to bat for them.

How do they treat whistle blowers?

 

[DJ Bebop]

You gotta love when the higher ups value their employees and go to bat for them.

How do they treat whistle blowers?

It depended on who is blowing the whistle on whom

 

[Bass Viking]

I have the same feeling. There is something almost clinical about their instruments that i can't pin down either. As an example: I remember when the Peavey Grind NTB's first came out and they were made in Vietnam. They played like butter, excellent necks etc. Of course there is a but. Some of them were poorly finished, especially the body sanding, very handmade feeling, lots of grain and colour variation too. The later series was made in Indonesia and they seemed to have had the life sucked out of them, almost too perfect? I don't know.

LOL, they're damned if they don't, damned if they do!

 

[burpgun]

They are not automating in those countries. Process automation requires large capital investment, and it doesn’t pay itself back when the labor is inexpensive. Automation is more appropriate for expensive countries like the US, Japan, and Western Europe.

But also, what do you all imagine is actually taking place in these factories?

They are taking components like tuners, bridges, pickups and the like out of a box. They mate parts together. They drive screws. They package the finished product. What makes one think that it’s so difficult that an Indonesian person can’t do it as well as an American or Japanese person? It’s not rocket science. If you need someone with 10 years of experience to bolt a neck on properly, then your necks and bodies are garbage.

The quality is the result of management. The workers will do what they are asked to do, as long as the process is well-designed (ie, it’s doable/ergonomic and repeatable). If a company producing in Indonesia has management that is committed to continuous improvement and making a good product, then you will get a good product. If a company in America is resting on its laurels, phoning in new product designs, and charging for its legendary brand status, then the results will vary. The variation itself is symptomatic of lack of focus on quality. You shouldn’t have to play 5 different basses of the same model to find the good one, they should all be the same.

All valid and interesting points, although I do wonder how much less automation, like CNC machines cutting bodies, etc., is in place at an Indonesian factory busting out Squiers and now Fenders.

As I've understood these things you move factories out of a country to pursue cheaper wages, weaker regulatory burdens and depending on the industry, supply chain benefits. So that gets me back to a $1K Indonesian build. It may employ more hands on workers, but they are cheaper than developed market workers, probably by a lot. It seems like most or all of the builders are privately held but with factories that once produced decent $400 guitars now selling similar instruments for much higher, I'd like to know the margin on that type of production.

And I'll just stress again, some of the best guitars I've had in recent years have been Squires and a Guild from Indonesia, and Schecters from South Korea. My Mexican Fenders have been all over the map. Had one USA Fender Jaguar bass in the mix and it is the best I've owned, even as most of the switches are now in a bad way. Not sure who to blame for that.

 

[embellisher]

I have a Korean Lakland D55-01 that people used to turn their nose up at because it was MIK. I bought it because it was better quality than USA and MIJ basses that cost twice as much at the time.

I bought my wife an Ibanez SR400EPBDX a couple of months ago. Made in Indonesia, and better electronics and fit & finish than MIK Ibanez from about 20 years ago.

Like somebody else pointed out, the new Tobias basses are made on Indonesia, and appear to be at least as good as the Gibson USA made Tobias basses from the late 90's.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

I wonder if the Indonesian basses are all being made in the same factory. That would help explain the consistent results across brands.

 

[UNICORN BASS]

Too true Bass Viking! "We are just trying to make a great bass man!"

 

[AltecGreen]

All valid and interesting points, although I do wonder how much less automation, like CNC machines cutting bodies, etc., is in place at an Indonesian factory busting out Squiers and now Fenders.

As I've understood these things you move factories out of a country to pursue cheaper wages, weaker regulatory burdens and depending on the industry, supply chain benefits. So that gets me back to a $1K Indonesian build. It may employ more hands on workers, but they are cheaper than developed market workers, probably by a lot. It seems like most or all of the builders are privately held but with factories that once produced decent $400 guitars now selling similar instruments for much higher, I'd like to know the margin on that type of production.

And I'll just stress again, some of the best guitars I've had in recent years have been Squires and a Guild from Indonesia, and Schecters from South Korea. My Mexican Fenders have been all over the map. Had one USA Fender Jaguar bass in the mix and it is the best I've owned, even as most of the switches are now in a bad way. Not sure who to blame for that.

Here is a factory tour of the Cort factory. CNC machines for guitar bodies are not that high tech (now) and not as expensive or rare as you might think. We are not talking about a six axis mill used for precision metal work.







Here is a longer video with the History of Cort. There a re lot of info that addresses points brought out in this thread.

 

[bholder]

No country has a lock on either skilled craftsmen or CNC machines. Where it's from says nothing about its quality. Who it's from says everything.

 

[Hawk256]

I wonder if the Indonesian basses are all being made in the same factory. That would help explain the consistent results across brands.

There are 3 major factories in Indonesia that will account for 99% of all the Indonesian basses made. Good jobs are hard to find in Indonesia. When someone gets one, they don't want to lose it. Workers motivation is very high.