Calculating the flat surface is correct because the membrane moves in one direction, not spherically. The cone is just for stability so the membrane moves the same amount and direction at any position. (Ideally, reality differs as often...)
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Double Bass 12 vs 15 speaker
- Thread starter nikolozj
- Start date
Is the consideration limited to 12 and 15-inch drivers? My personal preference is 30-inch speakers, which are awesome except for the schlep. Oy! What's the cone area of a 30 anyway? 
One consideration is off axis response. I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the wider the radiating plane, the narrower the dispersion. Your 1x15 may have a nice midrange standing directly in front of it, but your audience members off the to the side of the stage may only hear mud coming from your rig. This effect is called 'beaming'. When amplifying my upright, I usually cut some lows using a HPF because basses are really low mid instruments. I've been gigging with a 1x10 cabinet which gives as much low end as I need while still projecting clearly.
Yes, indeed. Thanks for amplifying
that point.[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] one of several explanations easily found on line. Voigt invented the "whizzer" cone to improve the radiation pattern at a driver's upper frequency. See here.
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As other's have so eloquently stated, it's much more about the cabinet's design than it is about the actual size of the driver. I've noticed that many of the newer neodymium 15" drivers don't extend as far into the upper frequencies
as JBL D-140's and Altec 421's did. That's kind of interesting to me.
Ric
as JBL D-140's and Altec 421's did. That's kind of interesting to me.
Ric
I have a neodymium Eminence C2515, which reminds me a lot of the Altec 421's I had back in the good old days.
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While there are many drivers of many sizes available these days that can reproduce low frequencies accurately, I have never heard anything that reproduces the low end of a double bass with as much authority as a good 15 speaker. I also prefer the way a 15-inch driver like the Eminence C2515 reproduces the upper bass and low mids of a double bass, which to me are what gives the instrument much of its character.
Finally a 15-inch driver doesn't have to work as hard as a smaller diameter driver to produce a given SPL at a given low frequency.
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I'm sure you were evaluating those drivers in cabinets. Again, it's about the overall design. Your analysis is correct so long as SPL is measured across a larger area, which it usually is. A 15" driver may also break up sooner because it's more difficult to get it to act as a piston. So, there are several parameters to consider: displacement, excursion, beaming, and cone break-up, among others. Multiple drivers can quite advantageous when all that is considered. Also, they allow dispersion difficulties to be overcome. The distance a driver has to move to produce a given SPL is very much dependent on the loading. The Eminence K-33-E at the throat of a Klipschorn moves a fraction of an inch at quite high SPLs. In another cabinet (loading) that wouldn't be true. Then there are the four 6.5" drivers in the Polk SRS 1.2 TL that, because of clever loading, produce wall-shaking bass with usable response down to 12 Hz. 12 Hz! It's all in the design.
Here's a nice discussion. It does point out the theoretical advantages of large drivers for reasons including those you cited. Still, when all is said and done, they (Barefaced) don't appear to offer any cab with a 15" driver.
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Yes, indeed. Thanks for amplifying
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] one of several explanations easily found on line. Voigt invented the "whizzer" cone to improve the radiation pattern at a driver's upper frequency. See here.
Oops, missed that. I should have known you already covered that
Ah, but you did a nice job of explaining what affects off-axis response. Thanks!Oops, missed that. I should have known you already covered that
I've settled in on two DB rigs:
1) Acoustic Image Ten2
2) Markbass 208
And my bass rig is :
David Gage Realist
Luciano Golia Doublebasses
1) Acoustic Image Ten2
2) Markbass 208
And my bass rig is :
David Gage Realist
Luciano Golia Doublebasses
Cabs with a line array for the mids/high are something to go try. Genzler has one, but plenty of PA cab makers have jumped on the band wagon. The "12" or "15" would just be a sub-woofer, and the mids/highs are several drivers in a vertical line. The sound is well dispersed, with no beaming to where you want the sound smooth to be heard. JBL EON One is a new model I'd like to hear, the measurements are already published and it may be a surprising cab to use with DB.
Take a look at Markbass combos if you can. I doubled with a cmd 102p for a while and it sounded great at moderate volumes.
Thanks for mentioning that. I heartily agree. I've been doing the mid/tweet line array for almost 3 years.
I had an MB115, it was awful for my DB. Too much low end causing feedback issues and muddiness that I couldn't EQ out. I haven't heard the MB112 but would definitely advise against the MB115.
12's. I have used about every type of cabinet and speaker. Back when stages were larger, multiple 15's were my choice, but now, a pair of 12's sound really nice on stage, for anything from old R&B to big band jazz. From my experience, the smaller the speaker, the more likely you are to hear the mids up close. I have a GK MB212 and it's the "good for anything" rig for me...
Keyboard amps are designed to be flat-sounding, while bass amps are usually voiced in some way. (Of course not all of them)
I don't think it's related to the driver diameter.
I think it's just because of the design.
I don't think it's related to the driver diameter.
I think it's just because of the design.
During my formative years of amplifying DB, I had a Roland KC 60(?) which seemed pretty good to me at the time. I had a home-made electret pickup/stick-on mic and I could virtually pull my strings back and forth and see the speaker cone moving in response - absolutely zero high pass filtering I would say. I guess that lets those really low piano notes through unscathed. Maybe bassfacer likes that much low end, but I am now quite often resorting to the 'guitar' HPF setting on my Headway to get a realistic sound with some woodiness...
just my 2c - Steve
just my 2c - Steve
