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Double Bass 12 vs 15 speaker

nikolozj

nikolozj

Dec 15, 2011
171
23
#1
Hi all,

I'm in the process of deciding which amp to buy. I hear a lot of different stories about speakers.

I hear that 15 inch is more "muddy" and less "punchy" but at the same time it's deep and rich in lower range.

I play jazz, currently I have p bass copy and I'm in flatwound warm tone camp. I will definitely switch to upright when the time and money comes.
I play mostly traditional/standards. I don't like big bands and I enjoy playing in small ensembles.

Any ideas?
 
#2
Well you are about to get a million replies stating that the size of the speaker does not dictate its tone.

That said, in my humble and limited experience, some of the newish 12' cabs are really nice. Aguilar, Bergantino, Genzler, Epiphany, etc. I play an old P and an EUB and last year got two Berg cabs, an NV115 (sealed with a 6" mid) and a CN112 (ported neo with a horn). The two are really different but I think I prefer the CN112, goes as low or lower than the NV15 but much better clarity in the mids and highs. This seems to be more important for DB.

What kind of budget are you looking at? These are all kind of pricy but it seems with DB you do better with a better engineered cab. Where are you located? It is kind of hard to find some of the nicer bass cabs. I am in SW VA and the local music stores have very little of the better bass gear but I am fortunate to be in driving distance of two shops that have nicer stuff. There have been a couple good threads about DB cabs lately. Check them out.
 
#3
nikolozj said:
Hi all,

I'm in the process of deciding which amp to buy. I hear a lot of different stories about speakers.

I hear that 15 inch is more "muddy" and less "punchy" but at the same time it's deep and rich in lower range.

I play jazz, currently I have p bass copy and I'm in flatwound warm tone camp. I will definitely switch to upright when the time and money comes.
I play mostly traditional/standards. I don't like big bands and I enjoy playing in small ensembles.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

jthisdell said:
Well you are about to get a million replies stating that the size of the speaker does not dictate its tone.
Click to expand...
I'll be the first. :) It's not about the size of the driver, it's about the design. The least muddy and most punchy bass you're ever likely to hear is in a design with a 15" woofer (although it's not a DB cabinet and weighs some 200 lb). Some of the multi-driver designs discussed here (e.g., Crazy 88, MAS series) are fine DB cabs. It's true that, all other things being equal, a larger driver will have a naturally lower cutoff in terms of radiating upper frequencies. Many 15" and 12" designs are paired with a tweeter (e.g., Thunderchild 112). Even the Crazy 88 has a tweeter. That said, the cabs that get the most love here have drivers smaller than 15". Specs to consider are:

1) Small size (which goes hand-in-hand with weight)
2) Efficiency
3) Low-end response
You can pick two of the three above

4) Frequency response (on- and off-axis)
5) Power-handling
6) Impedance
7) Others...

I suggest that you pull up a chair and read through the threads here. They contain a wealth of information. Forget about 12" vs. 15".
 
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#4
After having played a couple, I think that some of the new 12's are just stellar. There is one particular 2x12 Berg that wow-ed me, but I don't remember what model it was. Many people also like the 2x10 format, but the only ones that impress me are really pretty expensive.

That having been said, I've never bought anything but a 15. Past (Fender), present (Crate), future (Fearless), DB (Engelhart), BG (Ibanez), PA (Behringer), whatever.
 
#10
A friend of mine who I used to work with was telling me that his experience in dabbling with cab design was that surface area was what mattered, not speaker size. Meaning the total surface area of the speakers. 2x10 is going to have more surface area than 1x15. Not sure how true that is.
 
#12
Thank you all for replying.

I'm actually looking at combos for now. And the ones I'm looking at are GK mb112 and mb115. I like that you can add additional powered cab to them. This almost makes me want to go for 112, because of it's size and weight. I don't want a big size gear yet. I think 200w (12" or 15") will be enough for now.
 
#13
nikolozj said:
Thank you all for replying.

I'm actually looking at combos for now. And the ones I'm looking at are GK mb112 and mb115. I like that you can add additional powered cab to them. This almost makes me want to go for 112, because of it's size and weight. I don't want a big size gear yet. I think 200w (12" or 15") will be enough for now.
Click to expand...

I have a G-K MB112. It's a fine doubling rig, IMHO. I feel that there are other options that are more optimal for the DB, but they tend to be significantly more expensive.
 
#15
Huy Nguyen said:
I'm too lazy to do the math. Your calculations are correct if it's a flat surface. Will it be different if properly calculated as a cone? Probably not but I'm not sure how correct that guy was in the first place.
Click to expand...
You are correct. I assumed that the depths of the speaker cones were likely proportional to their radii, and would therefore have little effect on the outcome. Also, I can compute the area of a circle knowing only "12 vs. 15," but cannot calculate the area of a cone unless I know its depth.
 
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#16
vanderbrook said:
I have a G-K MB112. It's a fine doubling rig, IMHO. I feel that there are other options that are more optimal for the DB, but they tend to be significantly more expensive.
Click to expand...

Well I'm a flat beginner as far as what's out there on market for DB.
I liked the size/weight and just how compact is markbass mini 12" combo. But I never tried it and it's over my budget.

But just to know, what are the better for DB but "significantly more expensive" than GKs?
 
#17
nikolozj said:
Well I'm a flat beginner as far as what's out there on market for DB.
I liked the size/weight and just how compact is markbass mini 12" combo. But I never tried it and it's over my budget.

But just to know, what are the better for DB but "significantly more expensive" than GKs?
Click to expand...
Here, let me help you open that Can O' Worms...

Off the top of my head... an Acoustic Image Contra... possibly something from Phil Jones... some are partial to certain Markbass products... many will tell you to go with separate amp and cab, which opens another Can O' Worms... others will certainly be contributing shortly...
 
#18
So when we say "better options for DB". What does that exactly mean? What is it that amp needs to be good for DB?
Is this very individual thing, as far as searching "your tone" and what YOU like? Or are there strictly technical things that matter for DB while choosing amp?
 
#19
nikolozj said:
So when we say "better options for DB". What does that exactly mean? What is it that amp needs to be good for DB?
Is this very individual thing, as far as searching "your tone" and what YOU like? Or are there strictly technical things that matter for DB while choosing amp?
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are members here who can knowledgeably discuss exactly what thing(s) make one combo amp better than another for DB... I don't think I can. So for me, it is an individual thing. I've owned an Acoustic Image Contra Combo, an SWR Workingman's 15, the G-K MB112, a Henriksen JazzAmp and a few other amps (e.g., Peavey). Some have been much better for BG than DB (e.g., SWR), some have been much better for DB than BG (e.g., AI) and some have been good for both (G-K; Henriksen). I know input impedance can be a factor with the piezo pickups commonly used on DBs. I'm sure there are many other factors that influence how closely an amplifier -- electronics + driver(s) -- can reproduce the acoustic instrument's sound, but I don't know exactly what they are.
 
#20
For whatever reason, a pair of Baer ML112s work excellently for doubling for me.
Compared to what I had, (SWR loaded with an eminence) the volume before feedback is amazing for the double bass. Not to mention rich mids/highs with the 6" drivers, really brings presence to the D & G strings.
They don't do too bad at all for the electric either.;)
 
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