Double Bass 1940 Kay Advice please.

[tsarter]

I have a new to me 1940 Kay Orchestra Model bass. Its the blonde in the pics below next to my ‘42 Kay.

I have a couple questions. First of all, I don’t know a whole lot about this model. Any insight would be helpful.

Secondly , as you can see from the photos, there’s a separation happening with the neck is attached to the body. It plays wonderfully and holds pitch and seems totally solid - like it’s not going anywhere, but is this something I’m gonna have to repair at some point, and if so, what’s involved?

I really should not keep both of them so I’m trying to decide which one to sell. Thank you. Maybe I should know what I’m getting into with the new blonde. I only paid $600 for it so I don’t have a lot into it financially yet.

 

[james condino]

That may be just a loose neck joint; it also may be a sign that the bass took a fall and the neck block is broken. The only way to tell is to steam the rest of the joint open and to have a look. Either way, it looks like you got a great deal, even if you need to put $$$ into it. PLEASE....hot hide glue only and best if the work is done by someone who knows basses well and has experience with this exact problem.

 

[tsarter]

That may be just a loose neck joint; it also may be a sign that the bass took a fall and the neck block is broken. The only way to tell is to steam the rest of the joint open and to have a look. Either way, it looks like you got a great deal, even if you need to put $$$ into it. PLEASE....hot hide glue only and best if the work is done by someone who knows basses well and has experience with this exact problem.

I’ll get it to someone qualified. as I said, it plays beautifully and has excellent action, so I’m not too worried about it right now

 

[Steven Ayres]

Welcome to the Kay Bass and Cello Registry!

You have a Kay O-100B built in 1940. Designed for orchestral students, the Orchestra series was very popular before the war, but was essentially discontinued by 1944. The upgrade O-100 is characterized by its gamba corners, standard edge pinstriping with rear center stripe distinguishing this model, rosewood fingerboard and appointments and black or nickel tuning plate finish. I estimate total O-100 production in the 2,100-2,200 range, and about 800 of those are the blonde O-100B.

Your neck is what I call popped, meaning the string tension is slowly pulling the neck out of its dovetail joint. This is the best known weakness of Kay basses, a problem created at the factory by the choice to use wood that was a few pennies cheaper for the top block. Most of these are tulip poplar, which in my experience softens and compresses with age. The wedge of the neck's hard-maple tenon opens the cheeks of the softer mortise, and 80 years on (long past the instrument's expected service life) it's a problem we have to deal with on most every one of 'em sooner or later. Many, many Kay basses serve for years with this condition, so it's not an emergency, but the action is slowly rising, the bridge getting shorter, the neck angle diminishing, and the joint growing more precarious.

The solution is a professional reset, and you can find the ins and outs of that covered widely across this platform. Drop "Kay neck reset" into the search box and browse the results, there are opinions.

I'd like to document your C-1 for the Registry as well, please drop me a DM here or take a look at Kaybass.com.

 

[tsarter]

Thanks for the info, Steven! I’ll send you a direct message with the serial number for my other one. It’s just written in pencil rather than a paper label but when I last checked it, it placed it at 42. Sounds like you’ll be able to confirm that for sure. I’m actually not even sure what model it is.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Sell the C-1 unless you have a particularly strong attachment to it. They’re basically identical except for the cooler and more rare cosmetic details on your Orchestra. Man, that’s clean.

As stated above, the neck on the Orchestra needs a reset, but nobody said why. Kay neck sets were, uh, approximate, and there’s typically a lot of air space in the joint. That’s why the heels break — not only is the wood flatsawn rather than quartersawn for some reason, but the air space in the joint gives the neck space to collapse into a fall and there she goes.

When you have the neck reset, insist that the joint be tightly shimmed with good quality spruce. If done properly you shouldn’t have to worry about future problems.

 

[tsarter]

Yeah, that’s what I decided - sell the C1. I’ve had it for 20 years or so, and really love it, but there’s nothing super sentimental about it. Aside from it being my first upright. I think it’ll be easier to sell the one that does not need a neck reset as well.

right now. It has a Barbera pick up built into the bridge which I’ll probably keep so I’ll put a new bridge on it before selling it.