+1.
Recently I sold my '77 P bass (8 lbs, 100% original with the original pickup/bridge covers, original thumb rest and OHSC) on nyc craigslist for $1400.
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1971 P bass value
- Thread starter Dallyd31
- Start date
Recently I sold my '77 P bass (8 lbs, 100% original with the original pickup/bridge covers, original thumb rest and OHSC) on nyc craigslist for $1400.
If it were all-orignal with the original pots and original tug bar where it should be, I would pay $2900. In its present condition I would pay closer to $2000.
I've been playing since 1972, and didn't even hear about GC till the mid 90's... am I seriously that out of touch?
Foderas are Hella nice, but a split P'up don't make it a P... needs a bit more Fender on it than just a copy of a P p'up AFAIMCAdd another $1000 and get this P bass. Thank me later.
PS.
You can get a much better 100% original '70s P bass for less than $2900.
The US to CDN exchange rate now is bad, right now, so $2900 CDN is somewhere around $2200 US. ... Last Friday I put my 73 P-bass on the Tampa Bay Craigslist to get some feelers at $2,200. ... It's all original and comes with the original P-pickups but I installed Lindy Fralins, because nothing rocks an old Fender like Fralins.
D
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That's a interesting point... what's the boundary for "vintage"? A '71 bass is 46 years old after all... so my '79 Guild isn't vintage, or my '85 Wal?
Not official, but like cars over 25 years considered "classic", I'd probably consider an instrument like this more than 25 years old to be "vintage". However, a company (like Fender) might be known for historical eras of production, which would probably alter that classification for me a bit.
Lets not get vintage and highly collectible mixed up 
Obviously early 70's Fenders are still quite desirable but not as much as pre CBS.
ps I hung my '71P out there for $2500USD late last year with no interest. In the end I decided to take it off the market. Its hard to find an original nice playing vintage P around here.
Obviously early 70's Fenders are still quite desirable but not as much as pre CBS. ps I hung my '71P out there for $2500USD late last year with no interest. In the end I decided to take it off the market. Its hard to find an original nice playing vintage P around here.
The rule you're referring to is intended to prevent veiled for sale posts. That doesn't apply in this situation.
Again, depends on why you're buying an instrument. If you want a Fender logo and look, then you are correct. If you want a bass that plays like butter and sounds like a P, then the Fodera nails it, and you will have a very tough time finding a 70's Fender (or even older) that comes close.
As for the definition of vintage, its up to the individual selling and buying. The person selling always wants to call their item vintage as it ascribes some mystique to it. A person buying similarly often wants vintage because of the same reason. I stick to my guns - a 70's Fender isn't vintage *to me* (if I had to put a number, I'd say at least 50+ years). It is a mass production instrument that was made in variable quality. It is interesting *to me* pretty much only for nostalgia. Which btw is a perfectly acceptable reason for buying one. That's why 50 and 60-somethings are paying stupid money for 60's/70's muscle cars.
Often a certain milestone in the company (either ownership, model change, or factory location) can be a demarcation line. The CBS purchase is generally agreed upon as such a milestone, and market values reflect that.
Bottom line is that the bass is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. But let's be honest - people chase "vintage" instruments largely for two reasons - the look (street cred), and the possibility that they will go up in value. Playability and tone is usually the last criteria. Most P-basses built after 2008 will be arguably a better playing instrument than ones built in the 70's (with exceptions). "Cool" has a price tag, and no crime in wanting to pay for that. Same sort of logic goes into buying boutiques, but more often playability/sound is a higher criteria. Looks and cache are still in play though.
If anyone has watched South Park this past season - member berries...
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Three reasons (at least)...some people just like old things. Cars, musical instruments, wives
Thanks for all of the input everyone. The bass is priced in CDN $, but I converted it to an equivalent US $ for the purposes of the thread.
I agree its currently overpriced. From what I can see, and what is listed/sold on reverb, etc, I would assume the value would be around $2000-$2100 USD. I am looking for one for sure, but hard to find a good old P ( pre 73) for decent price, that is light and plays/sounds good.. I'm looking to pull the trigger when I can find one.
I agree its currently overpriced. From what I can see, and what is listed/sold on reverb, etc, I would assume the value would be around $2000-$2100 USD. I am looking for one for sure, but hard to find a good old P ( pre 73) for decent price, that is light and plays/sounds good.. I'm looking to pull the trigger when I can find one.
Lets not get vintage and highly collectible mixed up
Street cred, yes....formerly known as "snob appeal". No doubt about it. Which, as you've pointed out also applies to expensive guitars.
Performance criteria aside, basses priced at the Fodera/Alembic/Ritter level deliver a different "flavor" of snob appeal, but snob appeal nonetheless. So if we're being totally honest, it's hard to deny that for basses at the very highest pricing tiers, the Snob-Appeal-o-Meter is pretty much "pegged".
Nothing wrong with snob appeal, or paying extra for the cool factor, or extreme craftsmanship for that matter. For myself, if my resources were unlimited I might never buy a Ritter bass, but I'd have a warehouse full of cars and bikes, new and old. It's all about personal priorities, and it's all good in my book. Cheers.
"Steet Cred" and "snob appeal" are two different things, but they can overlap. It also depends on whom one is trying to get street cred or snob appeal from.
If you play a gig with a beat up old Fender, you've likely got street cred from the musicians and the crowd. You're only getting snob appeal (yes, a pre-CBS certainly has snob appeal given the current prices) from those that know what it is worth. If you play the gig with a Fodera, the musicians *might* know what it is (likely not), and the crowd certainly doesn't know. Zero street cred. The snob appeal is there with the same demographic - those that know what the bass cost.
The thing is, if one actually plays their instruments, then you can't "put performance criteria aside." That's kinda the main point of the instrument unless you're a collector. I'll stand by my assessment - the Fodera P will play objectively better than pretty much any old Fender out there (will take lower action if you want, more consistent note-to-note, etc). But "vibe" is real (perception is reality), so there is more to it than measuring the bass setup. That still doesn't mean it is better for an individual - as you said, depends on their priorities.
As for old being cool or good, I get that. For about 5 years I tracked/raced a '79 Porsche 911SC. Low horsepower (by today's standards), and not expensive to buy (about the price of a Fodera when I bought it in the early 00's). I could have bought a Subie WRX that would have been much faster at the track. But the driving experience is totally different between the two. The Subie (and any current performance car) was fast and largely drama-free until you pushed it to 10/10s (which was pretty damn fast). The 911 otoh, had no power steering, no ABS, had an air-cooled motor, and would head into trailing throttle oversteer at the drop of a hat, often catching drivers out as they spun around. It was like driving a time machine. And I loved that experience.
For some guys, playing an old Fender gives them a similar playing experience - it is like being in a time machine. Totally worth the investment to some. But just like a Kia will get you from point A to point B in a similar fashion to a Porsche, the experience will be different. Just depends what you want. As for today, the 911 is long gone (racing is expensive). Now instead my "experience" difference is between these two
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"Steet Cred" and "snob appeal" are two different things, but they can overlap. It also depends on whom one is trying to get street cred or snob appeal from.
If you play a gig with a beat up old Fender, you've likely got street cred from the musicians and the crowd. You're only getting snob appeal (yes, a pre-CBS certainly has snob appeal given the current prices) from those that know what it is worth. If you play the gig with a Fodera, the musicians *might* know what it is (likely not), and the crowd certainly doesn't know. Zero street cred. The snob appeal is there with the same demographic - those that know what the bass cost.
Not to parse words, but I think you may have stated a bit of an oxymoron here. IMO, in the case of guitars, street cred and snob appeal are synonymous to the degree that they mean the same thing, for the reasons you've stated. Because other musicians are the only ones who will likely note the difference between an authentic old Fender and a newer Fender, it's the same musicians who can note the difference between a Fodera and a Warwick Rockbass. Along with that appreciation comes automatic street cred, as "other musicians" know what these instruments cost, and they know that their owners have the requisite "Gear IQ" to know the difference, too.
I have heard the Fender vs CBS story many times. It has become the stuff of legends.
Yet, I have yet to see a single piece of statistical evidence that preCBS guitars are any better.
There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that Fender fell off the face of the Earth after being acquired. Yet, there is no verified evidence whatsoever.
When CBS bought Fender, they didn't fire everyone. Most of the pre and a post acquisition employees were the same. Did they forget how to do their job? Did they forget the process?
Probably not.
If post acquisition guitars are lower in quality, there has to be some sort of explanation.
Does anyone have any verifiable data?
The thing is, if one actually plays their instruments, then you can't "put performance criteria aside." That's kinda the main point of the instrument unless you're a collector. I'll stand by my assessment - the Fodera P will play objectively better than pretty much any old Fender out there (will take lower action if you want, more consistent note-to-note, etc). But "vibe" is real (perception is reality), so there is more to it than measuring the bass setup. That still doesn't mean it is better for an individual - as you said, depends on their priorities.
Agree with the bulk of your assertions here, as Fodera construction techniques, materials, and exhaustive attention to details re playability should surpass any Fender ever made.
That said, a properly built (read; defect-free) Fender or Fender clone (Sad, Lull, etc) can be made to play exceedingly well, to the point that any discernible improvement beyond that will invoke the laws of diminishing returns in relation to the extra money spent. Nothing wrong with taking things to the nth degree, but at some point brand name cache kicks in where performance level drops off.
Nice rides, btw.
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