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1x12 or 2x10?

N

Nick Ioannucci

May 18, 2005
1,148
2
Connecticut
nickioannucci.blogspot.com
#1
wat do you think? i feel like fro the same money i would spend on a mid level 2x10 i could get a real nice 1x12, which would be used for upright and electric. Theres Bergantino, EA, Eden, and Schroeder. I dont really have a head in mind yet either, i guess it all depends on how patient i am and what my budget is when i finally get fed up of waiting. im aiming for about a grand. wacha think?
BTW theres nothing wrong with used gear either.
 
#4
Nick Ioannucci said:
wat do you think? i feel like fro the same money i would spend on a mid level 2x10 i could get a real nice 1x12, which would be used for upright and electric. Theres Bergantino, EA, Eden, and Schroeder. I dont really have a head in mind yet either, i guess it all depends on how patient i am and what my budget is when i finally get fed up of waiting. im aiming for about a grand. wacha think?
BTW theres nothing wrong with used gear either.
Click to expand...
From what I've been reading on this forum for the last few years, it sounds like you need an EA CXL112. I know they sound great with electric, but the rumour is they are amazing for upright. Now where could you find one (or two) of these at a really good price? Oh... wait a minute... I know... in the Classified section. I think I saw someone posting a couple this morning. :hiding:

Rocky :D
 
#5
Within manufacturer and quality level, in my experience a single 2x10 will significantly outperform a single 112. Typically, a 112 is smaller (i.e. 'pushes less air'), handles less power and has lower SPL than a 2x10 by the same manufacturer (this becomes clear if you check out the specs on the Epifani or Bergantino site. My experience with the Epi12's and 10's and Berg 12's and 10's matches the published specs. However, they sound different, so you have to decide if you like 10's or 12's.

Of course.... two 112 cabs will outperform (volume and low end) a single 2x10 within manufacturer, and allows for modularity!

Finally, the Schroeder's are a different thing because of their very small size. The Schroeder 1212 Light is about the same size and weight as most 112 boxes, while the little Schroeder miniL is smaller and lighter than most 110's. So... it's hard to categorize those cabs. In other words, if I was doing a 2x10 comparison, I would line up the Schroeder 1210, because it's actually smaller than most 2x10's and the 10" speaker in the baffle really makes it sound like a 2x10 to me. Similarly, I would match the Schroeder 1212L with other single 112 cabs for comparison, due to its similar size and weight as a typical 112.... IMO.
 
#7
Nick Ioannucci said:
thanks guys. i guess i really will have to get my lazy self out to a GC or sumthin to play on a bunch of different stuff. idk where i could try out the schroeder or berg stuff tho, they dont carry that there do they? or am i just so used to seeing the samashmosthorriblestoreintheworldlineup? BTW wat does SPL mean?
Click to expand...

SPL is Sound Pressure Level, and is a very general way to determine how loud different cabinets will be with the same wattage pumped into them.

A lot of people dismiss the published SPL measures, because they are usually measured at a relatively high frequency (typically 1K from what I understand). However, it's useful in a relative sense IMO.,

However, a low SPL cab might be low SPL because the cab is voiced to put out a lot of bass (like the Acmes... who's SPL's range from the low to mid 90's), which takes more wattage than a similar cab that's voiced more to the mids (like Schroeder or Eden, which have publishes SPL's in the 100-103 range). Low SPL does not necessarily mean 'bad'... it just suggests that you will need quite a bit more power than a higher rated SPL cab to get the cabinet 'as it's voiced' up to gig volume.

SPL is very useful within manufacturer, and is also a general gauge of the relative amount of power you need to get up to gig level.
 
#9
Nick Ioannucci said:
thanks guys. i guess i really will have to get my lazy self out to a GC or sumthin to play on a bunch of different stuff. idk where i could try out the schroeder or berg stuff tho, they dont carry that there do they? or am i just so used to seeing the samashmosthorriblestoreintheworldlineup? BTW wat does SPL mean?
Click to expand...

The problem is that most GC's or Sam Ash stores won't
have what you need. The trick here is that you want it for
upright bass too. I love my Epi 210UL, but never for my
upright. The sound is too big and boomy. Not so with the
Berg 210. For a doubling cab, the Epi 112UL and the Euphonic
Audio 112 are great choices. If you need volume I think
the Schroeder 1210 is a very good option. Works well for
both basses.(depending on the head) Again, none of these
will be found at Guitar Center. And for gods sake, watch
out for the dreaded "option anxiety".
 
#10
DWBass said:
4 string standard tuning....2x10
5 string standard tuning....1x12

IME, the 2x10 is louder but will not give you good low b booty a 1x12 would give you.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with that. The Acme210 goes WAY lower than any 112 I've ever heard, as does the Epi210UL. As pointed out by Big String, the smaller Berg cabs are voiced more to the mids, which is part of the reason the DB guys like then so much. I also find my HT210S has better low end extension than either of the two Berg112's.
 
#11
I've owned a couple of the Berg HT-210's & SWR Goliath JR. III's which I would say are fairly representative of the mid and high end ranges. I had problems getting the clean volume with both of those cab's when playing a medium size gig. I was very surprised that the Berg started breaking up at close to the same volume levels as the SWR Jr. III. I've since sold the Berg and often wondered if the amps I was using (TFB-420 & Mesa Walkabout) just didn't have adequate headroom for the Berg 2-10 (8 ohm). I guess that I expected more.......

Granted I haven't tried the Epifani or EA 210's but thus far only the Accurgroove Tri-210 (not really a 210 cabinet) handled the medium size gigs to my satisfaction.

On the other hand, last week I used a new Berg HT-112 at a medium size gig (maybe lower-medium gig...) and the sound was awesome! It never showed signs of breaking up and really filled the room with thick sound. Definitely the nicest sounding 1-12 cabinet I've played through (38 lbs).
 
#12
JOME77 said:
I've owned a couple of the Berg HT-210's & SWR Goliath JR. III's which I would say are fairly representative of the mid and high end ranges. I had problems getting the clean volume with both of those cab's when playing a medium size gig. I was very surprised that the Berg started breaking up at close to the same volume levels as the SWR Jr. III. I've since sold the Berg and often wondered if the amps I was using (TFB-420 & Mesa Walkabout) just didn't have adequate headroom for the Berg 2-10 (8 ohm). I guess that I expected more.......

Granted I haven't tried the Epifani or EA 210's but thus far only the Accurgroove Tri-210 (not really a 210 cabinet) handled the medium size gigs to my satisfaction.

On the other hand, last week I used a new Berg HT-112 at a medium size gig (maybe lower-medium gig...) and the sound was awesome! It never showed signs of breaking up and really filled the room with thick sound. Definitely the nicest sounding 1-12 cabinet I've played through (38 lbs).
Click to expand...

I think the power thing was your issue with the Berg210. I have a 4ohmHT210S and am pumping the full 1200 watts of my Walter Woods Ultra into it, and it just sounds great.... probably twice the volume before breakup of my old GIII Jr... although that's an indirect comparison based on memory.

However... it's still a small cab and won't compete with my 410.... nor will it compete volume wise with the medium sized Schroeder 1210 or 1212 (which are the only small cabs I've ever been able to do a large, loud gig with). But... it sounds really good in smaller venues at moderate volume, and handles a low B wonderfully IMO

I too have never found a 210 that could really handle a medium to relatively large gig. I've heard good things about that Accugroove210... but that's about as big and heavy as my Epi410UL (although I think they just updated it with lighter drivers and a new tweeter... nice)... as you pointed out, though.. not really a 210.

K
 
#14
well, im really want a schroeder 1210, or a berg, the two seem to be the best for what im looking for, and used the prices arent bad. i looked at an EA 2x10, but its harder to find them at a price that will fit my budget. i also have to find a head as well. THERES SO MANY DAMN OPTIONS. so with the above selections, can anyone comment on a head? i was thinking carvin b500 or 800 seeing as i dont need a whole lot of power(ie b1500), and i heard a couple of sound clips of the b1500(they all have the same preamp right?) and the thing sounded real clean. also, mabey a used eden wt400 or 550?
 
#15
KJung said:
I'm going to have to disagree with that. The Acme210 goes WAY lower than any 112 I've ever heard, as does the Epi210UL. As pointed out by Big String, the smaller Berg cabs are voiced more to the mids, which is part of the reason the DB guys like then so much. I also find my HT210S has better low end extension than either of the two Berg112's.
Click to expand...
Well, I did say 'IME' (in my experience). I've not been lucky enough to own nor play through any of the cabs you mentioned!
 
#17
Nick Ioannucci said:
well, im really want a schroeder 1210, or a berg, the two seem to be the best for what im looking for, and used the prices aren't bad. i looked at an EA 2x10, but its harder to find them at a price that will fit my budget. i also have to find a head as well. THERES SO MANY DAMN OPTIONS. so with the above selections, can anyone comment on a head? i was thinking carvin b500 or 800 seeing as i dont need a whole lot of power(ie b1500), and i heard a couple of sound clips of the b1500(they all have the same preamp right?) and the thing sounded real clean. also, mabey a used eden wt400 or 550?
Click to expand...

Nick,
+1 on the Eden WT-550. I picked a used mint one up several weeks ago from a TB'er and it's a great head! Much better than I expected. Plus it can go down to 2 ohms safely.

A slight word of caution on the Schroeder, at least the 1210 model. I owned one for a couple weeks and as everyone says, they really cut through in a live gig. However, you either love them or hate them. The 1210 just sounded to honky sounding to me. IMO not an inspiring cabinet to play in front of.

As Ken stated earlier, the Berg 1-12 does lack some of the low end bass response of the Berg HT-210 (and even the SWR Jr. III), but the mid-range growl put out by that cabinet is too kill for! IMO the sacrifice that you make on porting the 210 cabinets for better low end is that they typically break up sooner due to the extreme speaker excursions required to pump out the lows (check the speaker cone movement on one of those cab's and you'll see what I mean). The Berg 112 cabinets are ported in a manner that cuts some of the lower freq's, minimizing excessive cone movement and the result is a tight punchy sound capable of fairly high clean volume.

The Berg sounds huge in the venues that I've used it in but if I ever play it in a room where the acoustics caused it to sound too thin, I would just suppliment the low end by running a DI through the mains and utilize the sub-woofers.
 
#18
JOME77 said:
Nick,
+1 on the Eden WT-550. I picked a used mint one up several weeks ago from a TB'er and it's a great head! Much better than I expected. Plus it can go down to 2 ohms safely.

A slight word of caution on the Schroeder, at least the 1210 model. I owned one for a couple weeks and as everyone says, they really cut through in a live gig. However, you either love them or hate them. The 1210 just sounded to honky sounding to me. IMO not an inspiring cabinet to play in front of.

As Ken stated earlier, the Berg 1-12 does lack some of the low end bass response of the Berg HT-210 (and even the SWR Jr. III), but the mid-range growl put out by that cabinet is too kill for! IMO the sacrifice that you make on porting the 210 cabinets for better low end is that they typically break up sooner due to the extreme speaker excursions required to pump out the lows (check the speaker cone movement on one of those cab's and you'll see what I mean). The Berg 112 cabinets are ported in a manner that cuts some of the lower freq's, minimizing excessive cone movement and the result is a tight punchy sound capable of fairly high clean volume.

The Berg sounds huge in the venues that I've used it in but if I ever play it in a room where the acoustics caused it to sound too thin, I would just suppliment the low end by running a DI through the mains and utilize the sub-woofers.
Click to expand...


+1 on all the above, including the Schroeder being unusually voiced... you either like it or REALLY don't.

I also have very positive feelings for the EdenWT550. Very, very nice head, and a great match with virtually every cab I've heard it through. Similar to the Thunderfunk in tone and volume, but with that little bit of 'tube bloom' that can sound very nice.
 

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