2 15s or 15 and 210 combo (Genzler)

[Laklandfan]

Thanks for using our gear and for the question. This is of course personal preference but I will say that one of our most popular multi cab rigs is the BA2-115-3 with the BA2-210-3 on top, either the straight or slant versions. The blend very well together and you get the benefits of the 15" for depth and roundness, the punch and quickness of the 10's and the coupling from the 2 line array columns which well deliver exceptional clarity and dispersion across the stage and throughout the audience. This blend of 2 different cab designs is more preferable to me that 2 of either of the same cabinets but YMMV. We all have different requirements we're looking for from our gear.
Hope this helps and thanks again.

How would the BA 212 cab's tone compare? Is it suited to be used standalone or paired? Thanks

 

[rodl2005]

Slant versions of these ALWAYS appealed to me.

I doubt there's a wrong version here.

I normally go for 2 of the same, but, geeeee the 210 Array would probably be a great compliment

 

[Standalone]

Two single fifteens is a delight. Each is lighter than a 210, and the physics of line arrays is such that they project a nice even sound out across a wide swath of the audience. Mine produce such a classic bass tone — I wouldn't trade them for anything.

They throw well outdoors but are compact and tight sounding indoors too. My bag ends are super compact — check out the "next to the jukebox" tight space pic

 

[edwinhurwitz]

he physics of line arrays is such that they project a nice even sound out across a wide swath of the audience

This is true, although a line array only propagates as such when the height of the speaker column is greater than the wavelength of the lowest notes you want to disperse. In the case of two Bag End cabs, which are about 18.5" tall, it stops being a line array below about 350hz. Given that high frequencies from a large driver beam quite a bit, the highs are fairly narrowly focused. The Genzler Bass Array cabinets, especially when used in multiples does disperse as a line array for the mids and highs. It's quite effective.

I'm sure your rig sounds great, but for a true bass line array, you'd need a 30-40' tall stack of cabinets. I've heard this. It's a profound bass experience.

 

[Standalone]

This is true, although a line array only propagates as such when the height of the speaker column is greater than the wavelength of the lowest notes you want to disperse. In the case of two Bag End cabs, which are about 18.5" tall, it stops being a line array below about 350hz. Given that high frequencies from a large driver beam quite a bit, the highs are fairly narrowly focused. The Genzler Bass Array cabinets, especially when used in multiples does disperse as a line array for the mids and highs. It's quite effective.

I'm sure your rig sounds great, but for a true bass line array, you'd need a 30-40' tall stack of cabinets. I've heard this. It's a profound bass experience.

I'm no acoustic physicist but it seems to me that the undirectionality of bass frequencies up to about 300hz would make for an overall very even sound.

While 300+ Hz would ideally radiate in a cylinder shape, with less volume loss for a given distance, the point source behavior of the lower frequencies would radiate quite evenly, though at a slightly proportionally greater volume loss for a given distance.

This would desireable in the venues where my bass is not in the PA. Back by the bar, I'm not booming.

My tone isn't about deep lows anyway. I get compliments on the rig regularly, unlike any other rig I've run — Neox212, etc….

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I'm no acoustic physicist but it seems to me that the undirectionality of bass frequencies up to about 300hz would make for an overall very even sound.

While 300+ Hz would ideally radiate in a cylinder shape, with less volume loss for a given distance, the point source behavior of the lower frequencies would radiate quite evenly, though at a slightly proportionally greater volume loss for a given distance.

This would desireable in the venues where my bass is not in the PA. Back by the bar, I'm not booming.

My tone isn't about deep lows anyway. I get compliments on the rig regularly, unlike any other rig I've run — Neox212, etc….

As I said, I'm sure it sounds great! I was just commenting on the nature of line arrays.

 

[Standalone]

I'm no acoustic physicist but it seems to me that the undirectionality of bass frequencies up to about 300hz would make for an overall very even sound.

While 300+ Hz would ideally radiate in a cylinder shape, with less volume loss for a given distance, the point source behavior of the lower frequencies would radiate quite evenly, though at a slightly proportionally greater volume loss for a given distance.

This would desireable in the venues where my bass is not in the PA. Back by the bar, I'm not booming.

My tone isn't about deep lows anyway. I get compliments on the rig regularly, unlike any other rig I've run — Neox212, etc….

Also, there is something good about directionality in the kind of club gigs we do. I run a vocals only PA and my stage sound comes from my rig. I kind of want to throw more sound directly out into the audience — clarity out there is a good thing, but the band and I only need to hear enough to lock and groove. And at bar/clubs people want to have a space where the band is fully lid and clear and also have more chill spaces over to the sides and at the back. It seems to me that large scale ticketed auditorium / arena shows are looking for even clarity everywhere, but that isn't necessarily what is called for for me. And any big shows have a DI happening for the audience sound.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

How would the BA 212 cab's tone compare? Is it suited to be used standalone or paired? Thanks

@Laklandfan --- thanks for your interest in our gear. My first question is are you looking for a one cab solution or not concerned about 2 cabinets to get this sort of optimal rig. I will say that the BA2-212-3 cab delivers serious depth and smooth mids via the dual 12's and 6 driver line array. Comparing against a BA2-115-3SLT AND BA2-210-3 cab, this combination is a pretty serious force and offers more internal volume for the drivers, but it is a stack of 2 cabs. Hence my question. I will say that our endorsee Nate Navarro has both rigs and often chooses the 2X12 cabinet when he needs more directional force from his cabinet, in a single enclosure.
Please let me know if this is helpful or if you have additional questions.
Thanks again.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hey everyone
I recently have acquired a Genzler Bass Array series 2 115 cab
My plan was to save money and get a 2nd one
Though I'm wondering if I'd be better off pairing it with Genzler's BA 210 on top instead
Curious what other people have done with experiencing using multiple cabs because I've only ever used a single
I just don't know if I'd be better off running 2 15s stacked or a 15 and a 210
I play 5 string
currently have a Markbass vintage 1000w amp head
Might buy the Bergantino ultra head in the future
Ty

My experience using a multitude of mixed cabs is unless you can parse the statistical engineering information on the design of a cab as well as the one that you have, it's kind of trial and error.

There is the old school thought that 15" speakers are used for the low end, and you use 210 cabs for punch and a higher voiced cab. Today in this era of full range cabinetry that may not be a true as years past.

Two most important thing that I consider is A, will adding a second cab crate an ohm load less than my amps minimum requirement and B, will the amp generate more wattage than the RMS rating of a cabinet? ,

Two other things. Do not overlook cab efficiency. Ratings should be about equal. The other is 210 vs 115. 210 cabs usually take up less space and tend to be lighter.

 

[Laklandfan]

@Laklandfan --- thanks for your interest in our gear. My first question is are you looking for a one cab solution or not concerned about 2 cabinets to get this sort of optimal rig. I will say that the BA2-212-3 cab delivers serious depth and smooth mids via the dual 12's and 6 driver line array. Comparing against a BA2-115-3SLT AND BA2-210-3 cab, this combination is a pretty serious force and offers more internal volume for the drivers, but it is a stack of 2 cabs. Hence my question. I will say that our endorsee Nate Navarro has both rigs and often chooses the 2X12 cabinet when he needs more directional force from his cabinet, in a single enclosure.
Please let me know if this is helpful or if you have additional questions.
Thanks again.

Thank you for your reply. That is interesting that he chooses the 212. I was wondering if it might be a way to get a similar tonal character as the 210-115 but in a one cab option, and wondering if anyone has tried 2x212 or 212+115.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Thank you for your reply. That is interesting that he chooses the 212. I was wondering if it might be a way to get a similar tonal character as the 210-115 but in a one cab option, and wondering if anyone has tried 2x212 or 212+115.

I'm not sure you will get the same feel from the BA2-212-3, as you would with a stack that includes the BA 15" cab. That will have more low-end depth and soundness. But the 212 wil have a more immediate feel and kick. I'mnot sure if any players using 2 of the 212 cabs. I do know Nate has used the BA 15 under his 212 with great results
Maybe others will comment as well.

 

[RasJay]

I have all of Genzler's cabs mentioned in this thread. I play a GK Fusion S head and lean more towards the 2x12. Jeff's explanations on each of his cabs matches what I hear. It is hard to explain, but there is something about the roundness and smooth mids of the BA2-212-3 that I keep going back. My GK puts out a ton of lows and they sound tight with this cab. The 2x12 with the 1x15 will run around 2.67ohms or what not, but I do not hear much benefit from adding the 1x15 because the 2x12 is so good on the low end. At least with my GK it is.

I have a modern GK head with a Spector Euro and wanted to try a modern 2x12 and love it.

I do also have an Ashdown CTM-15 all tube for fun. It does not have a lot of lows so I like to play it through the BA-115-3SLT which fills out the tone more. I am also very interested to try two Bass Array 1x15's together. These 15's are not the flubby dark ones from back in the day. They sound clearer, updated, and more modern.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

I have all of Genzler's cabs mentioned in this thread. I play a GK Fusion S head and lean more towards the 2x12. Jeff's explanations on each of his cabs matches what I hear. It is hard to explain, but there is something about the roundness and smooth mids of the BA2-212-3 that I keep going back. My GK puts out a ton of lows and they sound tight with this cab. The 2x12 with the 1x15 will run around 2.67ohms or what not, but I do not hear much benefit from adding the 1x15 because the 2x12 is so good on the low end. At least with my GK it is.

I have a modern GK head with a Spector Euro and wanted to try a modern 2x12 and love it.

I do also have an Ashdown CTM-15 all tube for fun. It does not have a lot of lows so I like to play it through the BA-115-3SLT which fills out the tone more. I am also very interested to try two Bass Array 1x15's together. These 15's are not the flubby dark ones from back in the day. They sound clearer, updated, and more modern.

Thanks for the nice comments. Good lookin' rig in the pic. Also, I like the cork floor. I have the same in parts of my house. Very warm and feels nice underfoot. That probably helps the tone of the cabs as well, .

 

[RasJay]

I installed cork all throughout my house. It takes on the temperature of the room, feels nice to walk on, and is great for acoustics. The cork floors and rugs, with acoustic wall panels eliminate the echo and weird phase stuff of noise bouncing around everywhere.

@Jeff Genzler How would your Bass Array 2x10 and 4x10 work together to make a 6x10? I have the slanted 2x10 and it would be interesting to put a 4x10 on top.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

I installed cork all throughout my house. It takes on the temperature of the room, feels nice to walk on, and is great for acoustics. The cork floors and rugs, with acoustic wall panels eliminate the echo and weird phase stuff of noise bouncing around everywhere.

@Jeff Genzler How would your Bass Array 2x10 and 4x10 work together to make a 6x10? I have the slanted 2x10 and it would be interesting to put a 4x10 on top.

Yes, I love the cork. Regarding your quesiton, @Joeykun uses a 2x10 and 410 together and loves the 610 kick that it brings to the stages he plays. He may comment here. If you're looking to make a big tonal push from stake, this would be a great way to achieve this.
Email me if you have any additional quesitons.

 

[Joeykun]

 

[retslock]

I have a Genzler BA-115 and 210 setup, driven by a Magellan 800. I think the combination is amazing. If I were to use a single cab, I'd probably prefer to use the 210 rather than the 115. It doesn't extend as low as the 115, but it's got more punch and clarity. The 115 and 210 are nice compliments to each other, IMO. I really can't think of a better rig, except perhaps to replace the Magellan with a Kinetix to get some tube flavor.

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This would be my preference. As John D Harris already said it gives you three options. You know the quality is there so it's just a matter of deciding if those three options are going to be an advantage.

 

[JoeyFab]

Replaced an Ampeg PR-410HLF with a G-K NEO115 and a Hartke HyDrive HD210. I'm happy (as is my back!). Best of both worlds, IMHO.