2 compressors?

[MisticoRitualista]

I got along fine for years without compression but once I started using effects I figured it would be useful especially in conjunction w/ envelope filters (one of my favorite effects) & now I really love compression even as a stand alone effect.

Ive always placed compression at the front of my chain where it can tame transient spikes prior to the signal hitting other effects but I've read of some people placing compression at the end of their chain so that the full dynamic range of their signal can pass through all effects & then be smoothed out on the back end.

Ive seen some people rocking two compressors, one at the beginning & one at the end of their signal chain... what is the logic there?

What are your thoughts on compression placement in general? What type of compression do you prefer? Optical, VCA, FET... what about tubes?

Just curious, thanks

 

[superheavyfunk]

Most likely, the one at the end of the chain is a ting as a limiter.

In other words, the one in front provides the squish or levelling that someone is looking for, while the last one provides a brick wall (and possibly a final gain stage) which stops any errant spikes in volume from hitting the amp or FOH.

 

[MisticoRitualista]

Most likely, the one at the end of the chain is a ting as a limiter.

In other words, the one in front provides the squish or levelling that someone is looking for, while the last one provides a brick wall (and possibly a final gain stage) which stops any errant spikes in volume from hitting the amp or FOH.

Ahhh that makes sense

 

[4Mal]

I would agree with light comp at the beginning and limiting at the end. As far as which comp goes
MXR M-87 is better than it should be for the dough
Empress Bass Compressor has a more robust feature set
Cali76 is my personal pick. There is some sweetening going on in it...

 

[AK Bass Guy]

If you are using a bunch of effect and have an inconsistent dynamic range a comp/limiter is a good idea. With foh boards mostly being digital now the person mixing is probably already doing this. So the question is do you want control of what is going to foh or do you trust the engineer to do it?

 

[2112]

Check out my spiel from a couple years ago when I was playing around with my Tech21 MP40:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-temple-of-2112.1320091/page-17#post-26576450

 

[moon-bass]

Good info here. I often use two compressors - pretty much the same as others, first in line to tame spikes and enhance harmonics, last in line as a limited or sorts.

That being said, I also use compressors as tone enhancers and effects. The Cali76 and the Becos Stella are my compressors of choice (first and last, respectively).

The Stella is an "always on" type of pedal, but the Cali might get switched off every once in awhile, especially for envelope filters. Also, try a boost directly before or after ... some cool stuff can happen.

Also, I think I'm in the minority here, but i may be one of the only people in the world that doesn't like tube compressors. Too squishy for me.

 

[davelowell2]

It's not really redundant if set up well.

Let's say you have a comp with its threshold at -30dBu with a ratio of 2:1. You follow that with another comp with a threshold of say -10dBu with a ratio of 4:1. When the signal is above -10dBu the ratios will add to 6:1 (medium-heavy compression), then when under -10dBu, but above -30dBu, the signal is gently compressed at 2:1.

-Frank

This is my favorite way to describe one way to use two comps.

 

[Wasnex]

The order of effects and the way you adjust them depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I don't generally use effects for bass, but I built a fairly large pedal board when I was screwing around with guitar. From time to time I plug a bass into the boards just for fun.

I have one compressor near the beginning and one near the end. The first compressor is one of the Diamond CPR-1s from the first run. It's optical and has a pretty low compression ratio and I just barely tickle the threshold. The CPR-1 is pretty much always on as it seems to add a little bit of fairy dust to the tone .

I actually had one of the Orange Aphex Punch Factory compressors before I bought the Diamond. The Punch Factory was also optical and I remember really liking it. Unfortunately orange Punch Factory seems rather fragile. First one failed under one month. The two replacements were DOA. So I bought the Diamond, which seems to have a fairly similar tone and feel.

The second compressor on my board is a Barber Tone Press. This was described as a Ross/Dynacomp with a clean blend. I was tempted by the clean blend/parallel compression. I think this feature probably is a bit more useful at higher compression levels than I typically run. I run the Tone Press "usually on" and may push just it just a bit further into compression than the CPR-1.

When I am most likely to turn the Tone Press off is when I run high gain pedals such as my Barber Trifecta fuzz pedal. High gain pedals tend to produce quite a bit of compression...and at some point it can be a bit too much for me. To me the adding the Tone Press after the Trifecta seems to mask the dynamic envelope of the distortion, so so the sound seems a bit to homogenous/consistent. Overdoing the compression seems to suck out the touch sensitivity and makes the sound seem boring and uninspiring. That's not to say it sounds bad, only that it's not the experience that I want.

The first pedal in my signal path is actually my Budda Bud-Wah. Placing the Diamond before the Bud-Wah creates a slightly different effect. Again, I am not saying it sucks, but I preferred the Wah first, and feeding into the compressor. However, if I was running heavier compression, I might prefer it the other way.

 

[superheavyfunk]

Also, I think I'm in the minority here, but i may be one of the only people in the world that doesn't like tube compressors.

I bought a comp from someone here once and they accidentally sent me one that was meant for another member. It was the markbass tube compressor, and since I had already opened up the box, I figured I’d give it a quick go ‘round while I waited for a reply from the sender.

Turns out, I didn’t like it. I was comparing it against my trusty OptiFet and a JoeMeek FloorQ (which is a seriously underrated compressor!). I really love optical and FET for their tone and feel and I’m like 50/50 on VCAs depending on the particular pedal (I think they usually perform best as limiters) but the tube ones are way too squishy and not reactive enough for my tastes.

I think I’d like one in a mixing session on a bus though, and definitely intend to try this at some point. I feel like it’d glue discreet pieces of a drum kit together really well.

 

[MisticoRitualista]

I use a Miura M2 Compressor/Limiter which is optical & has controls for threshold, ratio, attack, & level/boost but I just purchased a Doc Lloyd DLA-2A that I'm excited about.

I'm planning on placing the DLA-2A at the front of my signal chain & possibly putting the M2 near the end of my chain either just before a Miura K3 preamp which is last in line or in the K3's FX loop... I'll have to play around & see what sounds best.

 

[bigmikebass]

I am currently running my bass through a Cali76 big box->Doc Lloyd DLA-2A first in the chain. Have the Cali running 8:1 with a fast attack and release. It takes out the peaks and does the heavy lifting. The DLA-2A is run at around 1:00 to smooth out the signal afterward and give it more of an organic tube feel. I like it so far, wasn’t planning on 2 compressors, but will stick with it for a while before I decide if I want to keep both.

 

[FullumMusic]

There's nothing wrong with multiple compressors in your chain if you use them judiciously. You just have to be very deliberate with how and why you use them because their effects on the dynamic range will compound. It could be very easy to squash the dynamics of your playing to a lifeless nothing by stacking compressors and using them poorly.

When i'm producing/mixing i might use multiple compressors on the same track for different reasons. One to even the dynamics out; one for transient shaping; one for punch; one for a Parallel NY Bus setup; one to sidechain with the kick; etc etc. Of course i don't use all these compressors all the time on every track. Just what's needed. And also, in my DAW i'm running a lot of these parallel to one another and then summing them back together. But the idea is one compressor can only do one thing at a time, so i use multiple compressors for their different uses.

In a live rig for bass guitar, you might want a compressor at the beginning of the chain for one use, and then if you set all the levels of your FX to match your dry signal, but there's an effect that has a drastically different dynamic range (like a really peaky-resonant auto-filter burping out notes), a compressor at the end of the chain can help keep the effected signal in check. But you need to either set the threshold to only engage when that one FX is on, or turn the FX and Comp on and off together. Or a limiter (which is really just a compressor with an ratio of at least 10:1, often 100:1 or 1000:1 even though they say infinity:1) is common at the end of the chain to prevent peaks.

I have a setup now for a specific project that goes Bass -> High Pass -> Compressor -> Splitter, and then goes to two channels:
1: Pre-amp -> Interface -> DAW
2: Octave -> LPF -> Interface DAW.
Once they're in the daw the two channels get tons of different FX automations, often with a little bit of added compressor plugins to really push the sound into the low-dynamic-in-your-face-synth realm.

But, you don't need two compressors. You don't need to run out and buy another if you don't want. If you have one, just put it in the spot in the chain where it does its job best. Just experiment and listen and see where you think it's needed.

 

[MisticoRitualista]

I am currently running my bass through a Cali76 big box->Doc Lloyd DLA-2A first in the chain. Have the Cali running 8:1 with a fast attack and release. It takes out the peaks and does the heavy lifting. The DLA-2A is run at around 1:00 to smooth out the signal afterward and give it more of an organic tube feel. I like it so far, wasn’t planning on 2 compressors, but will stick with it for a while before I decide if I want to keep both.

interesting, so you have them back to back at the front of your chain?

 

[bftbassman]

Or use your finger attack & toss the effects

 

[GrowlerBox]

This thread reminded me that I wanted to try this. I have an API CMP always on at the very top of my chain, then API LLX, Hudson Broadcast (24 V internal, low gain channel), Broughton HPF/LPF, Lightning Boy Fe23 and Genzler Magellan Pre/DI as the always on chain. Between the Hudson and Broughton are a fuzz and OD (in a gently-blended Radial loop with the Broadcast) and right now, an old Japanese Boss CE-2B chorus I’m experimenting with. I decided to try my Walrus Mira right after the chorus into the Broughton.

Adding the Mira into the always-on series doesn’t do anything I want; it adds a little noise and merely makes me want to dial back the CMP (which I prefer over the Mira) or turn off the Mira. Inserting it immediately after the chorus (and perhaps other varieties of pitch modulation) really adds a lush thickness to the chorus tone and smooths out the pitch transitions, allowing the depth to be increased without making the result too “jagged”. Really nice. I don’t know if the chorus will stay on the board; I want to try some small-format phasers and flangers (my current ones are huge, 18 V affairs for which there is no room), and the Mira may play nicely with these, too.

Anyway, an interesting result to me, maybe to someone else.

 

[GrowlerBox]

Or use your finger attack & toss the effects

There’s always one …

 

[bftbassman]

There’s always one …

yeah man , some of us been strait in since day one,,,,criticize all ya want.. jam with ya any day anywhere,,any genre

 

[MisticoRitualista]

There's nothing wrong with multiple compressors in your chain if you use them judiciously. You just have to be very deliberate with how and why you use them because their effects on the dynamic range will compound. It could be very easy to squash the dynamics of your playing to a lifeless nothing by stacking compressors and using them poorly.

When i'm producing/mixing i might use multiple compressors on the same track for different reasons. One to even the dynamics out; one for transient shaping; one for punch; one for a Parallel NY Bus setup; one to sidechain with the kick; etc etc. Of course i don't use all these compressors all the time on every track. Just what's needed. And also, in my DAW i'm running a lot of these parallel to one another and then summing them back together. But the idea is one compressor can only do one thing at a time, so i use multiple compressors for their different uses.

In a live rig for bass guitar, you might want a compressor at the beginning of the chain for one use, and then if you set all the levels of your FX to match your dry signal, but there's an effect that has a drastically different dynamic range (like a really peaky-resonant auto-filter burping out notes), a compressor at the end of the chain can help keep the effected signal in check. But you need to either set the threshold to only engage when that one FX is on, or turn the FX and Comp on and off together. Or a limiter (which is really just a compressor with an ratio of at least 10:1, often 100:1 or 1000:1 even though they say infinity:1) is common at the end of the chain to prevent peaks.

I have a setup now for a specific project that goes Bass -> High Pass -> Compressor -> Splitter, and then goes to two channels:
1: Pre-amp -> Interface -> DAW
2: Octave -> LPF -> Interface DAW.
Once they're in the daw the two channels get tons of different FX automations, often with a little bit of added compressor plugins to really push the sound into the low-dynamic-in-your-face-synth realm.

But, you don't need two compressors. You don't need to run out and buy another if you don't want. If you have one, just put it in the spot in the chain where it does its job best. Just experiment and listen and see where you think it's needed.

That sounds like an intricate setup. I like experimenting w/ different sonic possibilities but am very much a novice when it comes to understanding the science of sound engineering. I just follow my ears & what sounds good to me.

 

[GrowlerBox]

yeah man , some of us been strait in since day one,,,,criticize all ya want.. jam with ya any day anywhere,,any genre

No criticism; I have absolutely no issue with people not using compressors or any other effects, and more power to you. I just have no idea what value you think that comment adds to this particular conversation, or why you’d even be reading the thread. But as I say, no criticism was implied regarding the preference against compression. There’s room for everyone .