Double Bass 2 Full Circles, 1 Bass?

[Pat Harris]

Has anybody ever tried putting two Full Circle pickups on their bass? I'm considering it and then running each pickup into a separate channel on my AI Ten2. I like the sound of the FC currently on my bass, and I'm wondering if I'll have access to any other sounds/colors by having a pickup on the treble side as well.

Any thoughts?

 

[JtheJazzMan]

Yes, probably louder, more direct and balanced mid to high range notes. Also possibly the most horrible phasing sounds youve ever heard.

If you can change the phase, even eq the channels separately to reduce certain frequencies, then it may be worth a shot.

Acoustic sound will probably be negatively affected.

The yamahiko pickup is like this. Its pricey and youll probably have to cut a new bridge, but maybe they have done more work to eliminate phasing issues.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I tried using two elements of the Stat B, and while it sounded pretty good, there was a hint of phasing and I went back to one element. I just got an EA Doubler that has variable phase between channels and I may try the two elements again at some point.

 

[JtheJazzMan]

I too have the stat-b dual element model, but the phasing was awful. Its just 2 elements wired in parallel so I made it into 2 single elements.

It sounds very nice with just the bass side element.

 

[3ddi3]

Yes, probably louder, more direct and balanced mid to high range notes. Also possibly the most horrible phasing sounds youve ever heard.

If you can change the phase, even eq the channels separately to reduce certain frequencies, then it may be worth a shot.

Acoustic sound will probably be negatively affected.

The yamahiko pickup is like this. Its pricey and youll probably have to cut a new bridge, but maybe they have done more work to eliminate phasing issues.

I've heard that the Yamahiko actually has the same problem. I've got a single one and that's actually more than enough. Sounds great.

And the yamahiko also is far to expensive for me to buy 2.....

 

[Pat Harris]

Thanks for the input. I completely forgot to think about any potential phasing issues.

 

[arseniotall]

anybody ever put the full circle just on the G-side of the bridge?

 

[drurb]

Thanks for the input. I completely forgot to think about any potential phasing issues.

Phase differences across the bridge? Check here.

 

[iiipopes]

One of the neglected ways to use a Full Circle, because it does usually entail getting a new bridge, is to try it threads up. I get a rounder sound that I prefer that way.

I'm not sure the phasing would be a full 180 degrees out that a phase switch, like on an fdeck, would be that helpful.

An alternative would be a two-channel amplifier with a pedal switch to go from setting to setting.

 

[JtheJazzMan]

With a simple phase switch, it will result in other frequencies being cancelled, then the best you could hope for is a different kind of sound that hopefully sounds better one way or another.

Ideally you would need a multiband eq for either signal. This would become pretty complicated for most bassists on most gigs, it would be more useful for a RGF type soloist who needs a very clear versatile sound.

 

[longfinger]

I'd rather have 1 removable p/u like the Ehrlund or Gage Soundclip and 2 basses. I know that's what you asked but the thread title made me do it. he heh.

==

I've never tried your idea, but it seems to require a lot of effort and money for little actual improvement. Both similar signals are going to the same amp speaker afterall...

Perhaps more noticeable change/$ could be had by a microphone to FOH system? Or even a fold-away adjustable 4 foot riser for the AI Ten2?

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Honestly, I've considered doing it. It could have advantages if you could find a sweet spot, phase-wise. Which is why I suggested that on the EA Doubler that it has a VARIABLE phase control. With phase switches you usually swap phase problems for different phase problems.
I have an exra FC. I think I'll try it.

 

[JtheJazzMan]

Its a good idea to investigate if you spend a lot of time further up the neck into thumb position. The treble side pickup strengthens those notes considerably, in my experience.

 

[MR PC]

variable phase sounds like a good idea.....in the mix down of a recording project.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Variable phase when used live by someone smarter than a gerbil can be very useful. It's pretty simple. You've got a 2 channel amp. One pickup in one channel. Another pickup or mic in the second channel. Then you turn the knob until they sound the best. Pretty complicated and daunting I guess.

 

[MR PC]

no, daunting because it sounds too simple! i'm remembering the dinosaur days of analog recording, using an oscilloscope and headphones to find the sweet spot for the mic in the studio....if one knob and yer ears is all that's needed, i'll be checking out the Doubler for sure. i have been looking at the Radial QPhaz online, but haven't heard anything else about it....and as of late I experimented with 2 single Underwood wing pu's into 2 Radial passive di's and flipping the phase on one. you are right, you just end up trading one phase problem for another with that

 

[Mike Arnopol]

The variable phase control doesn't get rid of phase problems, just the ones that are the biggest culprit. There are bad phase interactions across the spectrum. Some affect the tone more detrimentally. The sound of any muti pickup setup is a study in phase interactions---good or bad. The Fender Jazz Bass sound is based on phase cancellations. As is the Underwood. I did do an experiment years ago. I don't know where, but I was able to change the phase variably. Separated an Underwood and experimented with changing the phase between elements. I was able to get a MUCH better sound. I'm a single pickup guy on electric. One pickup in the sweetest spot. What I haven't done yet is to combine a Realist or Aptflex with the FC. I hate the Realist, but it does thump and attack better for walking than the FC for me. Might be good or it might suck. If I just had a fixed 180 degree phase switch I wouldn't even bother. Maybe the frequencies that had the worst phase problems would be exactly 180 out---but I doubt it.

 

[bssist]

At first read I thought, "just shift the phase of 1 pickup until they're together", then I thought a bit about the theory (and the link posted by drurb). It seems that the "cross-talk" would cause infinite phase issues. It might sound quite nice at some point. I would be interested in hearing the results of a test.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

As I stated, there is always an infinite amount of phase interactions going on. You can't get rid of all of them.(problems) But there is usually one that is a lot worse than others (cancelling out frequencies in the critical low end). That is where the control comes in handy and allows the combination of 2 different pickups where it sound pretty crappy otherwise. Like I said, one of the most respected and desirable sounds on electric (Jazz Bass) comes from phase interactions. In a Jazz Bass, a lot of this is from the cancellation of certain midrange frequencies from phase interactions. In this case it is actually true---spin the dial and see where it sounds best. Often times there are multiple desirable settings depending on the sound you want.