20+ years playing, still can't slap & question about strings

[Tweety Leaf]

Hello!

I've been playing since '99 and have never grasped the "just hit the strings with your thumb" concept. I am a fairly decent player with good left-hand technique, and I generally use a pick. I play hard rock/alt rock style. I have attempted to learn slapping from various sources, but it always ends in failure. The issue is that I don’t get the desired sound from my right-hand thumb hitting the strings; it often just dampens the hit, or the sound doesn't play, or alternatively, it sounds close to normal playing but not quite right.

The music that I play generally doesn't require slapping, but it has always bothered me that I can't do it and have failed to learn it.

The other concern: I have a Gretsch G2220 short scale, and I struggle to find suitable strings for it. I have played EBS Northern Light ML4 40-100 strings before on my previous standard scale bass, but they don’t make short scale strings, and I have failed to find any that I am comfortable even trying. The closest I know of is Rotosound66 swings 40-90, but I have not purchased those as I fear that the E string will be very floppy on a half-step down tuning.

How should I approach this, and is there any alternative that has a growly, bright sound where the volume levels are even across all octaves? (I often use the whole fretboard).

Appreciate the time you take to answer this!

 

[JonathanPDX]

You might explore Victor Wooten's double thumb approach, since he uses his thumb like a pick and that stroke will be more familiar to you than the Larry Graham "bounce" thumb approach. They are both handy and useful, but start with what's easy and go from there.

 

[Tweety Leaf]

You might explore Victor Wooten's double thumb approach, since he uses his thumb like a pick and that stroke will be more familiar to you than the Larry Graham "bounce" thumb approach. They are both handy and useful, but start with what's easy and go from there.

I dont know how, but I have not been aware of this technique at all, maybe coz its not used much or at all in hard rock/heavy. Really big thank you for this! Now to training!

 

[michael_t]

The other concern: I have a Gretsch G2220 short scale, and I struggle to find suitable strings for it. I have played EBS Northern Light ML4 40-100 strings before on my previous standard scale bass, but they don’t make short scale strings, and I have failed to find any that I am comfortable even trying. The closest I know of is Rotosound66 swings 40-90, but I have not purchased those as I fear that the E string will be very floppy on a half-step down tuning.

You should post this in the "Strings" section.

By the way, I don't slap and it doesn't bother me a bit I don't know how to do it.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I dont know how, but I have not been aware of this technique at all, maybe coz its not used much or at all in hard rock/heavy. Really big thank you for this! Now to training!

I'm happy to help! I've been a slap guy for a long time; I studied with Vic, learned just about every technique I could from him, and have always been fascinated with right hand technique. Guys like Bill Dickens do even stranger stuff with their right hand!

Marcus Miller also uses the double thumb a lot, and from a slightly different angle of attack. The song Power is a great example of how he puts this technique to work in a real musical context:



For double thumbing, a couple of tips:

Try using the corner of your thumb. I hold my right thumb up in front of my face and look at the left corner, that's the tip of my metaphorical pick, and the spot that should strike the string going down and up. Just like with a pick, you don't need to use the entire thing, just the small contact area, and the less striking area, the faster you can go!

You can experiment with how hard to thump but I would start as light as possible. You don't need to smash the string very hard.

My angle of attack, like Vics, is to thump down through the string and come to rest on the string below it. When I thump my E string, usually just past the end of my fretboard, I'm going into it, past it, and my thumb is resting against the top of my A string before the upstroke. It's important to have the right angle, if you are pushing the string straight down into the frets you won't get anywhere.

You can thump with your hand completely open, or fingers curled in a hitchikers position. With the fingers curled you will eventually find it's super easy to pluck with your index, middle, or both fingers after the upstroke. You can add these notes onto the same note, a different string, or two different strings, which really opens up your options!

I just remembered, a while back I shot a little video demonstrating my approach to these techniques. Here it is, if that helps you visualize the angles better:



Feel free to ask if you have more questions. Good luck thumping, and if you get fired for it, don't blame me!

 

[dreamadream99]

A normal slap is actually more of a ricochet. The side of the thumb knuckle strikes the top of the string lightly, and immediately rebounds away from the string. Otherwise it’s just a dampening thunk.

Remember snapping a towel at someone? The thumb action resembles that. It hurtles toward the string, but the retreating motion begins slightly ahead of the actual impact.

 

[mambo4]

 

[Killing Floor]

It’s percussive. Although you can slap with any string the result is easier to attain with brighter strings. Rounds like DR HiBeam or Dunlap Super Brights or even TI rounds? No best string. I’d say to start don’t think about notes and melodies. Just think about a paradiddle diddle or similar rudimentary rhythms. RRR-LL or RR-LL or RLRLRL… where you’re striking the string from the top with plucking thumb (outside edge) and smacking the whole top of the neck with your fret hand. Just do rhythms and work on that. Then build some speed. Then worry about where you’re fretting. Because you already know where notes are.

 

[chris_b]

When I listen to most slap players all I hear is a drinks cabinet falling down stairs and very little music. I can get into Larry Graham, but anything close to the Mark King/Vale Johnson style/double thumb etc, does nothing for me.

I've worked with slap and get so far, then I realise I've played bass for 50+years and in that time no one has ever requested it.

 

[thedovewarlord]

The other concern: I have a Gretsch G2220 short scale, and I struggle to find suitable strings for it. I have played EBS Northern Light ML4 40-100 strings before on my previous standard scale bass, but they don’t make short scale strings, and I have failed to find any that I am comfortable even trying. The closest I know of is Rotosound66 swings 40-90, but I have not purchased those as I fear that the E string will be very floppy on a half-step down tuning.

How should I approach this, and is there any alternative that has a growly, bright sound where the volume levels are even across all octaves? (I often use the whole fretboard).

Appreciate the time you take to answer this!

Believe it or not, maybe give flats a try, there's extra tension I dont imagine them to be "floppy" tuned a half-step down on a short scale. D'Addario makes short-scale with 45-100, and IMO they are even volume across all strings and are brighter and more alive than most of the other flats Ive tried, and I been able to get 'em to growl .

EDIT - maybe not the best choice of strings for slapping, but how much slapping are you looking to do, I bet the flats will sound great in that Gretsch.

 

[Les Fret]

I've worked with slap and get so far, then I realise I've played bass for 50+years and in that time no one has ever requested it.

why does anybody have to request it? You can slap just because you like it. It’s fun and it sounds cool in the right hands.

 

[chris_b]

why does anybody have to request it? You can slap just because you like it. It’s fun and it sounds cool in the right hands.

You've hit the nail on the head. . . . I guess if a band or bandleader had asked me to slap then I'd have learnt how, but as they never did, I haven't. The bottom line, some music can stand a little slap and some can't. I'm in the latter group, so it's better I don't.

Which was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Les Fret]

You've hit the nail on the head. . . . I guess if a band or bandleader had asked me to slap then I'd have learnt how, but as they never did, I haven't. The bottom line, some music can stand a little slap and some can't. I'm in the latter group, so it's better I don't.

Which was the point I was trying to make.

I guess I don’t need a bandleader to tell me what do I mostly play my own music. If you are playing funk or fusion being able to slap is ‘required’. But you can also slap in rock or metal or other genres. It’s totally up to you.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I’ve just gotten competent at slapping, in a limited metal context, after thirty years of playing—so there’s hope for you yet! Not that I play anywhere near Victor Wooten’s level, but like I remember him saying about learning to tap, I learned to slap (a bit) because I felt like a couple of parts needed it. Until then, I had no use for it and never bothered getting good (enough) at it.

 

[Riff Ranger]

As for strings on a short scale, I tried those same Rotosounds on a 28.6” scale and even in EADG I found them unplayable (and I like low tension). I don’t know what part of the world you’re in, but I didn’t know EBS even made strings so I’m guessing not North America if you like nickel roundwounds, see if you can track down Dunlop’s .105/.085/.065/.045 short scale set (which I have and love in my MiKro), or the GHS balanced tension short scale set.

 

[Fynn]

Slap is a difficult topic. I've watched a bunch of different tutorials over the years, even after I already considered my technique to be pretty much solid, and have not found one that actually taught me anything, or showed me an exercise that worked.
I learned all my technique from just watching my favorite players. The two main things that I found important for me, were the angle of your thumb and arm, and the setup of the bass. If you have more frets, you will end up playing closer to the bridge, so the strings will be a bit harder to pull, and also that smack against the frets (which is what gives that big percussive slap sound). Also having high action can make it difficult to get a consistent thumping and plucking going.
There's two main ways which you can slap. One being where you bounce of the string, which is often what people use who play at sort of a right angle to the string (flea for example does that), and then there's the way of thumping through the string. You basically use your thumb as a pick with only downstrokes. The latter way of slapping requires a lot more precision and training, but also gives a great consistency with the higher strings. Look at players like Les claypool, who will often go through the string with their thumb and not bounce back (even though he sometimes also does that).

So a couple of tips:
-if you have trouble hitting the strings precisely, keep practicing...
-if you feel like you can't really get the tone you want or the speed isn't there for example, change your strap height and the angle of your thumb and arm
-try slapping on something else than your bass. I always hit my thumb against things, because I'm a bit hyper and restless at times. I do the motion that I do when slapping (thumping and plucking) on my legs, or a table, or whatever. Think of it as a drumming pattern maybe.
-as for pretty much everything in life you wanna learn, start slow. That'll allow you to see when exactly mistakes happen, and it'll allow you to actually play more precise and with more intent.

That's about all I can come up with right now

 

[Tweety Leaf]

As for strings on a short scale, I tried those same Rotosounds on a 28.6” scale and even in EADG I found them unplayable (and I like low tension). I don’t know what part of the world you’re in, but I didn’t know EBS even made strings so I’m guessing not North America if you like nickel roundwounds, see if you can track down Dunlop’s .105/.085/.065/.045 short scale set (which I have and love in my MiKro), or the GHS balanced tension short scale set.

According to GHS those balanced tension are on mellow side (otherwise they are very, very interesting strings).
EBS makes roundwound long scale stainless steel strings and they are bright strings suitable for metal/heavy rock/hard rock. I would not use them for blues or pop tho.

I am really looking that steel brightness. From my knowledge, in theory the "optimal" strings for me would be roundwound balanced steels with hex core and 40-105 (or 50-105+). I am not aware such things exists
I really enjoy the bright "growly" rough sound steels produce, but cant find such things on low scale.'

Edit: i hail from northern europe.

 

[Tweety Leaf]

So a couple of tips:
-if you have trouble hitting the strings precisely, keep practicing...
-if you feel like you can't really get the tone you want or the speed isn't there for example, change your strap height and the angle of your thumb and arm
-try slapping on something else than your bass. I always hit my thumb against things, because I'm a bit hyper and restless at times. I do the motion that I do when slapping (thumping and plucking) on my legs, or a table, or whatever. Think of it as a drumming pattern maybe.
-as for pretty much everything in life you wanna learn, start slow. That'll allow you to see when exactly mistakes happen, and it'll allow you to actually play more precise and with more intent.

That's about all I can come up with right now

Thats great advice and collection of tips to start learning. I feel that the thumb approach will suit me best. Now I just have to bear with the "pain" as i don't normally play with fingers

There must be hundreds of these slapping posts here, but I feel its kinda understandable as peoples journey on learning are so different and somehow I feel there are so many different playstyles out there. Bass is so diverse that every genre approaches it differently, leading to these "Hey I have gap there in my playing but coz I play this and little bit of that my learning obstacles are kinda unique".

For example, when I was still quite new at playing I discovered Justin Chancellor (Tool) and instantly felt totally out of place. It was like opening a door to some strange universe where none of the normal rules apply but there were still strict rules. Of course jazz/funk/fusion etc. has great bass players because that music allows bass to step up in unique way. However, I have personally been never drawn to those genres, leading to gaps in my playing. Not saying one should learn everything necessarily, but it is interesting phenomenon on playing music in general.

 

[Les Fret]

Hello!

I've been playing since '99 and have never grasped the "just hit the strings with your thumb" concept. I am a fairly decent player with good left-hand technique, and I generally use a pick. I play hard rock/alt rock style. I have attempted to learn slapping from various sources, but it always ends in failure. The issue is that I don’t get the desired sound from my right-hand thumb hitting the strings; it often just dampens the hit, or the sound doesn't play, or alternatively, it sounds close to normal playing but not quite right.

The music that I play generally doesn't require slapping, but it has always bothered me that I can't do it and have failed to learn it.

The other concern: I have a Gretsch G2220 short scale, and I struggle to find suitable strings for it. I have played EBS Northern Light ML4 40-100 strings before on my previous standard scale bass, but they don’t make short scale strings, and I have failed to find any that I am comfortable even trying. The closest I know of is Rotosound66 swings 40-90, but I have not purchased those as I fear that the E string will be very floppy on a half-step down tuning.

How should I approach this, and is there any alternative that has a growly, bright sound where the volume levels are even across all octaves? (I often use the whole fretboard).

Appreciate the time you take to answer this!

did you try face to face lessons? The best way to learn slap is from a good teacher. No YouTube lesson or forum post can beat that…

 

[JimiLL]

You want to slap through the string, like it’s a pick. You get the deepest tone and least decay. Don’t bounce your thumb, although this can have a desirable effect as well although in moderation

Victor Wooten has some good videos on it.